Kirks middle name

Discussion in 'Star Trek - Original Series' started by Pixipick, Aug 2, 2014.

  1. Pixipick

    Pixipick Cadet Newbie

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    I just watched an episode called Where no man has gone before and in the episode a gravestone is displayed with the name James R Kirk. I only know Kirks middle name as Tobias, was the original name something different?
     
  2. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Tiberious.
     
  3. Kobayshi Maru

    Kobayshi Maru Commodore

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    I knew that. He only says it once, though. And not in the series if memory serves, in one of the movies.
     
  4. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I thought it was in The Animated Series?
     
  5. Harvey

    Harvey Admiral Admiral

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    General Chang says it in Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country, but I believe it first appears in the animated Star Trek episode, "Bem," where it is said four times per the transcript.

    For what it's worth, David Gerrold takes credit for coming up with the name at a convention in this interview, after which he put it an episode and had it approved by Gene Roddenberry and D.C. Fontana.
     
  6. davidant32

    davidant32 Commodore Commodore

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    Well, according to Memory Alpha...

    http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/James_T._Kirk
     
  7. Kobayshi Maru

    Kobayshi Maru Commodore

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    It's funny, I knew that it was said in the animated series but instinctively, I dismissed it as irrelevant. The animated series also contains a holodeck yet in TNG it is presented as something new.
     
  8. Pixipick

    Pixipick Cadet Newbie

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    Oops I meant to write Tiberius, but a glass of wine or two turned him into Tobias. Thanks for all the replies, it has answered my question
     
  9. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    "Grasps the bottom"? Well, that explains a lot. :lol:
     
  10. Green Shirt

    Green Shirt Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Please tell me the name of the wine. :drool:
     
  11. Melakon

    Melakon Admiral Admiral

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    The R. stands for Reinhold, just like Dan R. Fielding on Night Court. :shifty:
     
  12. urbandefault

    urbandefault Commodore Commodore

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    I thought it was Riberius, and Mitchell had slugged some of the OP's wine. :lol:
     
  13. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    IIRC, the original intent was for "R" to stand for Roy, which is why Nomad so easily mistakes the captain for its creator (Jackson Roykirk). I can't remember when "T" was first used, though.
     
  14. Harvey

    Harvey Admiral Admiral

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    That's unlikely, since "James T. Kirk" appears in the first season ("Court Martial" and "A Taste of Armageddon") and "The Changeling" wasn't written until after those episodes had already been written, filmed, and broadcast.
     
  15. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    ^ Alrighty-roosky. :alienblush:
     
  16. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

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    In Gene Roddenberry's (pre- Star Trek) military drama The Lieutenant, Gary Lockwood played Second Lieutenant William Tiberius Rice.



    :)
     
  17. GSchnitzer

    GSchnitzer Co-Executive Producer Moderator

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    As early as the second regular production episode ("Mudd's Women"), Mudd says: "No, my dears. After one more job for you, it won't be Harry Mudd that's trapped. It will be a gentleman named James T...." and then he is interrupted by Eve McHuron entering the room. He also has a "Captain James T. Kirk" nameplate just outside of his cabin in "The Enemy Within" (the trhird regular production episode).

    By now, it's pretty well known that in the television series The Lieutenant, created and produced by Gene Roddenberry, the lead character (played by Gary Lockwood [Gary Mitchell]) was titled William Tiberius Rice. It looks like Tiberius was a popular name with Roddenberry. I wouldn't be surprised if, for the purposes of the second pilot, they decided not to have Gary Lockwood from the recently-cancelled The Lieutenant series make reference to another character named Tiberius. It might just have been too insider-y. I speculate that Roddenberry always wanted Kirk's middle name to be Tiberius, but didn't want to do any silly stuff to jeopardize the success of this second pilot.
     
  18. Harvey

    Harvey Admiral Admiral

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    The final draft of the second pilot indicates "James R. Kirk." If Roddenberry had wanted it to be "James T. Kirk" from the beginning, I suspect he would have written it that way. There's nothing too "inside" about a middle initial.

    Just something he changed his mind about when it went to series (or forgot about).

    The fact that Gary Lockwood played a character with the middle name of "Tiberius" on Roddenberry's pre-Trek series does suggest to me that David Gerrold's memory may not be 100% on this. The similarities could also, of course, be a coincidence. Hard to say with any degree of certainty.
     
  19. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

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    If things had been slightly different, James T. Kirk could have been named "Dylan Hunt."

    Which would have made Shatner one of four actors in a Roddenberry production to have that name.

    :)
     
  20. Nebusj

    Nebusj Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I think what people are overlooking is that alphabets, like languages, are mutable, and obviously by the 23rd century the letters R and T are regarded as alternate forms for the same letter, in much the way that I and J used to be regarded as the the same letter, or U and V were barely differentiated.

    Of course, R and T have quite different sounds, but then both C and G are letters which correspond to very different sounds. Why are we supposing that English should have stopped evolving in 1965?