Kirk's infinitly old glasses

[apenpaap]

I am watching the TOS movies in a row right now, and noticed something very strange in The Voyage Home: to get some money, Kirk sold the glasses that Bones had gifted him in an antique store. So Spock asked "Admiral, weren't those a gift from Dr. McCoy?" and Kirk responded with "And they will be again, that's the beauty of it."
Now, IIRC, in The Wrath of Khan, Bones said he got those glasses at an antique store. This seems to strongly imply that after Kirk sold the glasses, they lie in the store for 300 years, then Bones picks them up and gifts them to Kirk, they travel back in time, and Kirk sells the glasses to the antique store, they lie in the shop for another 300 years, before Bones picks them up and the whole cycle starts again. This would mean that these glasses are eternally going through this cycle, and thus are infinitly old (and have never been assembled).

 

[Xerxes1979]

How can they be the same glasses if the lenses were cracked?

The storekeep implied that the lenses were original since they would have added value had they not been damaged.

 

[David cgc]

Well, they almost certainly weren't, since they were Kirk's prescription. The shopman probably didn't have the tools to tell the lenses weren't original, and 23rd century workmanship probably didn't have any tell-tales he'd know to look for.

 

[Shazam!]

IIRC, in The Wrath of Khan, Bones said he got those glasses at an antique store. This seems to strongly imply that after Kirk sold the glasses, they lie in the store for 300 years, then Bones picks them up and gifts them to Kirk

No it doesn't. It strongly implies that Kirk was making a joke due to being in a time period chronologically before he had received the glasses : /

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

If they made the lenses out of transparent aluminum, they would never break.

 

[DonIago]

I've never understood why people assume that Kirk -must- buy back his own set of glasses and create a paradox when it seems more reasonable to assume that after Kirk sells the glasses there's simply two (mostly-)identical sets of glasses.

Especially given the cracked lens issue.

 

[RoJoHen]

^I blame over-exposure to temporal anomalies. We look for paradoxes even when they're not there!

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

IIRC, in The Wrath of Khan, Bones said he got those glasses at an antique store. This seems to strongly imply that after Kirk sold the glasses, they lie in the store for 300 years, then Bones picks them up and gifts them to Kirk

No it doesn't. It strongly implies that Kirk was making a joke due to being in a time period chronologically before he had received the glasses : /

That's my take on the situation as well. "They will be again" means that in the future, a new pair of glasses will be made, which will eventually become those glasses (i.e. Kirk will get them for his birthday, will take them back in time with him, give him to the antique dealer, and they will probably stay there forever). Technically, it is the same pair, but at a different point in the glasses' own personal timeline.

The glasses that Kirk gives to the dealer *won't* eventually become the ones he gets in the future. Indeed, they can't be, because with enough trips around the time loop, they'd eventually crumble away to dust.

Just like if you travel back in time so that you die before you are born. Your corpse doesn't become your fetus...

 

[EliyahuQeoni]

IIRC, in The Wrath of Khan, Bones said he got those glasses at an antique store. This seems to strongly imply that after Kirk sold the glasses, they lie in the store for 300 years, then Bones picks them up and gifts them to Kirk

No it doesn't. It strongly implies that Kirk was making a joke due to being in a time period chronologically before he had received the glasses : /

Humor. It is a difficult concept...

 

[Broccoli]

^I blame over-exposure to temporal anomalies. We look for paradoxes even when they're not there!

I blame Rick Berman.

 

[trevanian]

If they made the lenses out of transparent aluminum, they would never break.

I now have a picture of a 'visible human' version of a starship, where it is a naked vessel like a cutaway.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

^ That would be so cool!

 

[Good]

I now have a picture of a 'visible human' version of a starship, where it is a naked vessel like a cutaway.

Sounds like a General Products Hull to me. Perfect for a trip to the Ringworld.

 

[Corran Horn]

I've never understood why people assume that Kirk -must- buy back his own set of glasses and create a paradox when it seems more reasonable to assume that after Kirk sells the glasses there's simply two (mostly-)identical sets of glasses.

Especially given the cracked lens issue.

Hell, I always assumed that when Kirk said "They will be again, that's the beauty of it" he meant that not only did he get them as a gift and use them, but now he'd sell them and get money for them.

I didn't even consider the time travel aspect. Yikes.

 

[knine]

I hate temperal mechanics.

 

[22 Stars]

I think the writers were clearly making a temporal loop joke, and those who don't acknowledge that are overthinking it. I believe that as the line states, 'they will be again' infers that those glasses are now back in time, for McCoy to one day purchase and give to him 'again' as the line states. That's the beauty of it.

 

[zephramc]

In all honesty it's not important and probably just a gag, but as a Trekker, it's my sworn duty to pick apart every detail of every Trek film or series.

As I recall, the antique dealer stated they were 18th century and very rare. I'm assuming that he simply studied the design of the frames and probably didn't care about the lenses. In fact it's unlikely that the lenses would last 500 years. Either through damage or gravity, the lenses would be useless by the 23rd century.

So we can assume the antique dealer was simply trying to screw Kirk out of some money with his "they'd be worth more if the lenses were intact" statement.

Back to the frames though, if the dealer was worth his salt he should be able to tell the difference between an 18th century frame and a replica, so I'd have to guess that the glasses did originate in the 18th century.

Now from the perspective of the glasses. They're created sometime in the 1700s, endure for 500ish years, are given to Kirk in the late 23rd century who takes them back to 1986 and sells them to the antique dealer.

Now you have two pairs of identical glasses in 1986. The original pair that is 200 years old (A) and the pair introduced by Kirk in 1986 (A-1) that is 500 years old.

Now A-1 could and probably is destroyed at some point after 1986 leaving only A, but then again maybe not.

 

[Ronald Held]

I assumed they were part of a closed time loop.

 

[The Squire of Gothos]

^I blame over-exposure to temporal anomalies. We look for paradoxes even when they're not there!

I first had the idea when I was a lot younger and more impressionable.

Like all such childhood imaginings, it doesn't bear closer inspection as an adult.

 

[scotpens]

^I blame over-exposure to temporal anomalies. We look for paradoxes even when they're not there!

I blame Rick Berman.

I blame this bunch.

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