Kirk's Health in XII

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies: Kelvin Universe' started by Kadratis, Sep 26, 2013.

  1. Kadratis

    Kadratis Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I've seen the film twice, and just watched the bluray, but I haven't listened to the commentary yet, but I was wondering: in the first quarter of the film, Bones is overly worried about Kirk's health. Could this be an abandoned plot line that would have Kirk being relieved of duty because of his mental state?
     
  2. OpenMaw

    OpenMaw Captain Captain

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    His health is in question because Pike was killed in front of him. He was no doubt showing signs of general stress, PTSD, survivors guilt. Etc... :) It's supposed to play into the notions of conflict being set up early on, and indicate that his state of mind is probably not what it should be to take on the mission. It's something that he slowly sheds as they get closer to the mission at hand.
     
  3. Hythlodeus

    Hythlodeus Commander Red Shirt

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    that's what I thought first. but after frequent rewatching I got the impression that after bones got the test results he was even more worried about kirks health and it doesn't look like it was about his stress level
     
  4. JarodRussell

    JarodRussell Vice Admiral Admiral

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    One of the things that was completely dropped, made no sense and had no point.
     
  5. OpenMaw

    OpenMaw Captain Captain

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    Mental stress can have physical side effects. Increase heart rate, higher blood pressure, it can throw your chemical balances all off. That's what I wager McCoy was talking about more than anything.
     
  6. Timby

    Timby LIKE LIGHTNIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIING Administrator

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    Exactly. McCoy's exact words were "Jim, your vitals are way off." Presumably he means vitals in the same way today's medical professionals do: Heart rate, blood pressure, pulse ox, presumably because of the stress he's under. It was just a quick dialogue device to further convey to the audience that shit ain't right, like Spock's objections to the mission and the inversion of the theme that plays when the shuttle is leaving for the Enterprise.
     
  7. Locutus of Bored

    Locutus of Bored Co-Founder of ISIS Moderator

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    If it was completely dropped it wouldn't have been mentioned more than once as an ongoing concern of McCoy's, which it was.

    It makes no sense to you that someone would suffer mental and physical trauma from being in the middle of a terrorist attack where several people were killed right in front of him, including his friend, mentor, adoptive father figure, the man who believed in and promoted him, his first commander, and his recent career savior?

    It has no point in a film that's largely about shattering Kirk's overconfidence and false sense of immortality? Did you miss the whole speech shortly before the attack about how he had not lost any of his crew, and how Pike called him out for his hubris in thinking he's invincible? Did you miss Kirk's lack of confidence when Carol rebuffed his advances that had worked a thousand times before, including in this same film? Did you miss the utter anguish in Kirk's face later on when he couldn't think of a way out of the Vengeance destroying them, and his heartfelt apology to the crew? Did you miss Kirk's admitting to the fact that he didn't know what to do, he only knew what he could do? Did you miss his willingness to sacrifice himself for his crew as a result and his fear upon facing his own mortality?

    Jesus, it's not like it was a hidden subplot or anything. The whole movie dealt with breaking down the self-made myth of James T. Kirk and making him into the more mature, responsible commander we knew him as in TOS.
     
    Ovation and JKM like this.
  8. JarodRussell

    JarodRussell Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I thought we were already making clear that McCoy was somehow concerned about his physical health, not mental health (see Hythlodeus' post). And that was dropped as soon as the second act began, hence it made no sense and had no point.
     
  9. Locutus of Bored

    Locutus of Bored Co-Founder of ISIS Moderator

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    PTSD and the resulting anxiety, depression, loss of sleep, and other factors have physical health consequences as well. McCoy was concerned about Kirk's vital readings. Anxiety, sleeplessness, loss of appetite, grieving; they all can affect your heart rate, blood pressure, and other vitals.

    There could have also been some more direct physical trauma from the attack as well (Kirk being directly in the line of fire when that massive window exploded in front of him, for instance). Not enough to stop him from doing his job during a crisis, but enough to have the very cautious doctor concerned for his friend.

    Neither of those is dropping the issue, though. They simply deferred treatment until after the immediate crisis was over, by which time it was a moot point since Kirk had died, been brought back by the Lazarus Tribble, recuperated in the hospital in a coma, and a year had passed where he was likely grounded and would receive further mental care and physical rehabilitation.
     
  10. Praetor

    Praetor Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Kadratis, I started a thread about the same topic a while back. I thought the same.
     
  11. saddestmoon

    saddestmoon Commander Red Shirt

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    McCoy is doing what any good's ship's doctor should be doing: monitoring the health / wellbeing of his captain.

    In leau of events early in the movie, he's simply doing his job and keeping an eye on Kirk, as one would expect of his role.

    As far as a plot oversight, it's nothing of the sort, IMO.
     
  12. Praetor

    Praetor Vice Admiral Admiral

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    That's was my final conclusion as well. McCoy was overly concerned, as a good friend/doctor (froctor?) should be, and it was played to comedic effect.
     
  13. 22 Stars

    22 Stars Commodore Commodore

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    If that was the case, then it wasn't that funny and they should have left it out altogether. I too thought it was an important plot point waiting for further exploration and then dropped. The film seemed very disjointed to me. Loved the first half, and then disliked the second half a lot.

    Shame the writers didn't stay with their 'this villian doesn't have to be Khan' phase.
     
  14. Spockkirk

    Spockkirk Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I think McCoy was trying to tell Kirk he needed to slow down and think about what he was doing. Also McCoy was right to be worried for his friend because I think he could tell Kirk was angry about what happened to their friend. Too bad McCoy didn't tie him to a hospital bed though!!!
     
  15. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    The point was that, if Kirk was in his right mind he wouldn't have gone on a mission to kill Harrison without trial. Once he calmed down a bit, he realized what he was doing was wrong, heeded everyone's advice and went down to capture him alive.
     
  16. MakeshiftPython

    MakeshiftPython Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    For a moment I read the title with "XIII", because I'm actually more interested in seeing the consequences of Kirk being brought back to life via Khan's blood. Seeing the side effects that no one anticipated and showing that the blood is way too complicated to work with thus the Abramsverse has no cure for death.
     
  17. Sindatur

    Sindatur The Grey Owl Wizard Premium Member

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    Neither case was cured of death. They were cured of fatal invasions of the blood/body, before they actually passed beyond (Radiation for Kirk and whatever Cancer or Cancer-like Fatal condition the little girl had)
     
  18. Spockkirk

    Spockkirk Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Do you think Spock and McCoy where right?
     
  19. trevanian

    trevanian Rear Admiral

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    If we were to buy into the physical trauma notion, they could have treated it in a way that lent itself to filmmaking via lens tricks and sound effects, portraying how he might be seeing the world a bit 'off.' It would even hearken back to Shatner getting tinnitus, because even just the ear-ringing can drive you crazy over time.

    But by virtue of the fact that they didn't choose to treat it using cinematic tools, and the fact it doesn't integrate into the story, it just lays there like wordplay, at least getting MCCoy's dialog count up from near-nothing, but not in service to the film (as opposed to McCoy in TWOK where he is very clear about what Kirk needs to do when they talk in his apartment.)

    Kinda think maybe they needed a rewrite done by somebody WAY outside of Bad Robot to bring some basic 'this is a movie' perspective back to things, who would have lopped off these dangling modifiers and such, and perhaps found a real core to hang all this on (which would be easier if you just drop the idea of it being Khan, too, and concentrated on the general s31 angle w/o embracing the 'a difference that makes no difference is no difference' that is KhanMinus2.0 in a nutshell for me.)
     
  20. Shaka Zulu

    Shaka Zulu Commodore Commodore

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    And (if I haven't already said it) the Federation and Starfleet would be foolish to give up that blood, but would synthesize it and turn it into a cure; this would serve (of sorts) as a way for what Khan/Harrison did to be redeemed (out of all of that death and destruction, came some good.)