Kirk & Marcus - Next Film Thoughts?

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies: Kelvin Universe' started by OBXTrekkie, Sep 16, 2013.

  1. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

    I don't think it will happen.

    I think we're headed square on for the "no beach to walk on" Kirk from TOS. While we never saw it, there was likely a reason why the Kirk we saw rarely allowed women to get close to him.

    In this timeline, it will be the death of a pregnant Carol Marcus. In my opinion.
     
  2. Ketrick

    Ketrick Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    You're probably right it won't happen and I agree there was a reason why Prime Kirk rarely allowed women to get close to him. Still, it would be nice for Kirk to finally get a happy ending. I just really don't buy the whole incompatibility of Kirk's Starfleet career or his personality and a long-lasting romantic relationship and/or family life.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2013
  3. doubleohfive

    doubleohfive Fleet Admiral

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    My feeling after walking out of the theater (apart from my frustration that people had spoiled most of the film for me already on social media) was that Carol was introduced here and would become involved with Kirk in or by the next film, which would ultimately be about the war with the Klingons and as a means of really ratcheting things up for Kirk, seeing the death of Carol as part of the action of that film. I freely admit that's somewhat of an obvious way to go, and if someone's already posited it (I haven't read this entire thread) I'll just add to that chorus, but that's what I thought. Then again I wouldn't be terribly disappointed if her value as a character wasn't solely tied to her relationship to Kirk. Uhura is already tied to Spock in addition to her function as the communincations officer, but that should be it. Let a female character be a character first.

    Apart from McCoy just being a charming guy, I didn't really see much intention there beyond his being a flirt (consistent with the Bones we all know and love.)
     
  4. Sindatur

    Sindatur The Grey Owl Wizard Premium Member

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    We already have the Uhura/Spock Romance at the center of the Command Staff, I think adding a Kirk/Carol long term stable relationship would just be too much. I'm going with either The Yoeman Rand unrequited but always hinted at romance or Carol's death (Or possibly just leaving the ship) is the result of the Romance plot. If there is no 4th movie, then yea, maybe they'll end the movie together, but, if they want to go further, I think there will be some reason it doesn't work out.

    TOS relied on Kirk's "womanizing" to get them out of many scrapes, not sure they'd "Marry" him off, especially not with someone under his command.
     
  5. Kelthaz

    Kelthaz Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Yeah, that's how I feel about it. I like the addition of Carol Marcus to the cast to add a little more diversity to the crew, but the whole point of a reboot is to do things differently. I don't want the two of them together.
     
  6. OpenMaw

    OpenMaw Captain Captain

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    Part of me agrees that Carol will probably get offed when she gets preggers. If only because Kirk needs a little bit more armor and experience with loss before he's quite the man he should be.
     
  7. OBXTrekkie

    OBXTrekkie Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    Lots of good food for thought here.

    I can totally see the Edith Keeler scenario playing out with Carol, and while that would work for me if well done, I happen to like her character, and I'd like to see her developed, rather than killed off.

    As for a baby David...it is a huge personal pet peeve of mine when films/shows kill off the hero's pregnant wife/girlfriend. I really, really hate that. And at this point it seems to me Kirk has lost enough. I could take or leave there ever being a child, but I would be cool with the romance, if it was well done, developed with a slow burn, realistically and not just portrayed as a lust fest culminating with a child.

    Then again, I suppose the child scenario could be an interesting angle too, but it would have to be perfectly written and executed to work for me this early on. A film or two down the road, if Kirk and Marcus were together long-term, I could see that working better.
     
  8. SeerSGB

    SeerSGB Admiral Admiral

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    God help me, as much as is it feels like fridging Carol--and I thought Alice Eve did wonderful with the part--I agree with this.

    It'd be an important moment for Kirk: Learning that he can't always cheat death, that there are times you can't win, or someone is going to be able to fix it.

    Really want to change it up--and they'll never do it: Carol dies, the baby survives, and Kirk leaves the service to raise his son. Spock or Sulu get command of the Enterprise at the end.
     
  9. Malaika

    Malaika Captain Captain

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    Didn't JJ Abrams say that no one will make Kirk marry and settle down? He made it sound like they have no plans for a stable romantic plot for him, Admittedly it was an interview for playboy but he seemed confident Kirk the womanizer is something they don't want to get rid of (I might disagree with him but hey..) but then never trust JJ too much...

    as for a pregnant Carol.. IDK this is another reality
    The writers always say that they want to harmonize with canon and have some major differences. Who knows, if they follow the pattern they sort of have created between K/S then Spock might be the one having a kid in this reality :lol:
    If you notice they sort of switched their roles. S/U was a nod to the Kirk/Uhura kiss that they took to another level and made an actual pair (in context in the 60s the K/U kiss alone was progressive even if forced. Nowadays S/U is progressive and "iconic" precisely because it's an actual interracial pair with a character like Spock. A dynamic like the K/U one from tos wouldn't be iconic or progressive today - it would actually be pretty insulting)
    In the other reality Pike was supposed to be Spock's mentor while in this reality they made him more Kirk's mentor and father surrogate than Spock's.

    but anyway maybe we're giving too much credit to them
    Even if they have a Kirk/Carol romance it doesn't have to be a big deal or for the sake of killing her to give Kirk manpain.
    They might even toy with some flirting and then in the very end of the trilogy imply that they will get together. In short a will they won't they sort of dynamic.

    I still think though that her character (borrowing spock words) is completely redundant, if her purpose really is to serve as Kirk's love interest or female friend. I already have S/U and the Kirk/Uhura friendship plus the Kirk/Spock, Kirk/Bones and Kirk/Scotty friendships. All the spots are filled.
    The only good addiction Carol provides is being another more prominent female character beside Uhura but other than that she will inevitably take screentime that could have been otherwise used for the existing secondary characters that are already undeveloped and underutilized.
    But then people seem to think that only Uhura getting more screentime means taking it away from Bones&Co.. so..

    I never saw a triangle between kirk/spock/uhura
    Kirk liked her in the first movie but it wasn't serious and definitely as soon as he saw that she was with Spock he always respected it.
    I might even say that he actually supports their relationship, he's definitely friend of both (also implied in the comics)
    As for Uhura, yes she likes him more now and they are friends but this doesn't mean she's interested about him romantically.

    Some people think that they're simply playing the Harry Potter formula: two male characters + a female one. Great friendship between them all, one romantic subplot between the friends of the hero.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2013
  10. Sindatur

    Sindatur The Grey Owl Wizard Premium Member

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    I imagine the Spock/Uhura romance in JJTrek is far more a nod to hints in early TOS of a romance between Spock and Uhura, then it is a nod to the forced kiss in Plato's Step-Children
     
  11. Malaika

    Malaika Captain Captain

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    It definitely IS.
    Orci said that it also fit with this Spock's arc because, in his words, "boys marry their mothers and his mother was human". I think it's a nod to Sarek/Amanda too.
    I don't have that quote to copy and paste here but he said once that they were trying to harmonize with canon as in tos the first interracial kiss was Kirk/Uhura while in the reboot the first interracial kiss and couple is Spock/Uhura instead.
    In the 60s the K/U kiss even if forced was groundbreaking and has became iconic because of the time where it happened. Nowadays the same thing wouldn't have the same effect. You need an actual interracial romance if you want to be progressive and they have made one with.. SPOCK :lol:
    Compared to that, a romance with characters like Kirk is a given. It surely can't be such a shock or that unpredictable (and wouldn't gain a parody made by the Simpson ;) )


    Tbh, if I were to make a reboot of a franchise like star trek, star wars and anything of similar genre and I wanted to add a bit of romance, I think that my own choice would be to have one between a human and an alien instead of one between two humans. If you have an universe with different worlds and races, where is the fun in having only human characters and human relationships? None, it's Nicholas Sparks in space.
    Furthermore, if you need to keep the romance part subtle, then a character like Spock surely helps because his alieness creates a perfect excuse to not make him a too sappy man and not have too many romantic scenes. You can have the cake and eat it too, basically.
     
  12. Khan444

    Khan444 Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I HATE the idea of killing off Carol to further Kirk's story. "Lets fridge the female love interest, even if she interesting in her own right, to cause the main male character angst." That's SO ORIGINAL.
     
  13. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Since Kirk was filled with character angst in TOS, I don't have a problem with it and if we get there by offing someone he cares about... oh well.
     
  14. Khan444

    Khan444 Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    THAT would be lazy and contrived, and a rehash of the original timeline (David anyone).
     
  15. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Kirk's character angst from TOS wasn't driven by David's death.

    Besides, like any other idea, it will all be in the execution. :devil:
     
  16. Ln X

    Ln X Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Hopefully they'll avoid Kirk/Carol, if we saw Carol in her undies in STID then I shudder to think what they will show in the next film.

    On a different note everyone here is saying this is a trilogy and thus the third film is the last JJ universe film. Personally I don't think we should set our sights on a trilogy. If the third film does as well as the other two then we're going to get a fourth film and perhaps even a fifth. Heck, the third film could even be the beginnings of a proper trilogy. They could shoot a back-to-back trilogy over a one year period if they're feeling really ambitious.
     
  17. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

    They're PG-13 movies. A girl in her underwear is about as risque as they're going to get.
     
  18. SeerSGB

    SeerSGB Admiral Admiral

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    Really? Carol in her bra and panties was that horrifying for you? As for STIII, how dare they show adults in a sexual relationship--I mean, I shudder at the horror of the thought.

    As for films past three: If they can keep it entertaining, I say bring it on.

    Which is a shame. I'd be interested in a balls-to-the-walls R rated Trek movie with a good, controversial script, that just took the franchise beyond where it's been in terms of the type of story the writers were willing to risk.
     
  19. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Won't someone please think of the children!

    I had a pic but I can't connect to Photobucket for some reason.
     
  20. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

    I'm not sure it's the writers. CBS and Paramount simply will never go in that direction with Trek.