Kira in charge of the Defiant

Discussion in 'Deep Space Nine' started by LobsterAfternoon, Jul 20, 2013.

  1. Captain Clark Terrell

    Captain Clark Terrell Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2013
    Location:
    The Captain's Table
    DS9 was a Bajoran station, so it fell within the jurisdiction of the Bajoran militia.

    --Sran
     
  2. Captain Clark Terrell

    Captain Clark Terrell Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2013
    Location:
    The Captain's Table
    It happened in "Apocalypse Rising." Worf wanted to take the Defiant to find Sisko and Dax. Kira preferred to have the ship guarding the station, to which Worf replied, "You may command the station, but I command the Defiant."

    --Sran
     
  3. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2012
    Location:
    Shangri-La
    It was in Apocalypse Rising. Sisko was over due from a meeting with Starfleet and Worf wanted to go looking for him, while Kira wanted to wait. The argument was moot being Sisko arrived right as they both drew the lines.
     
  4. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    May 10, 2005
    Location:
    The visitor's bullpen
    Both.

    The Defiant is generally assigned to the station. So the ship is commanded by whoever DS9's commander says - In this case, Sisko. If he feels like giving Kira the ship, she gets it, and all questions are moot.

    IIRC, though, after Worf arrives, he usually gets the Defiant. A notable exception would be "Trials and Tribble-ations" and that's because Kira - as a Bajoran - would have no reason to sneak aboard the NCC-1701 (Dax was a more obvious choice to do that because she is an expert on that time period and Kira isn't).
     
  5. Captain Clark Terrell

    Captain Clark Terrell Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2013
    Location:
    The Captain's Table
    ^Kira staying on the Defiant also gave her time to figure out how the Orb of Time worked so they could return to the twenty fourth century.

    --Sran
     
  6. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2012
    I figured Kira was second in command on the Defiant because Sisko said so.
     
  7. Dale Sams

    Dale Sams Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2012
    What? Have you not seen Master and Commander? At least there's *some* precedent.
     
  8. Data's Cat

    Data's Cat Lieutenant Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2013
    Location:
    Texas
    Yes. She seems to have more authority than she should.

    And weirdly, she seems to answer equally to both Star Fleet AND Bajor. I find her role a bit confusing.
     
  9. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2012
    Location:
    Shangri-La
    I wouldn't call British aristocracy overriding common experience a good thing.
     
  10. Tomalak

    Tomalak Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2003
    Location:
    Manchester
    Seems like Bajor basically signed over the station to Starfleet, in exchange for their aid in rebuilding the planet's shattered infrastructure. If they wanted to tell Starfleet to go, they were well within their rights - and this happened in "The Siege". On the other hand, Starfleet can basically tell them where to go, because the Bajorans don't have the capacity to force them to go - see "A Call to Arms".

    It's similar to how the US has bases in places like Okinawa and Diego Garcia. In theory the Japanese and UK governments could tell them to leave. In practise they couldn't force the US military out of their bases.
     
  11. Bad Thoughts

    Bad Thoughts Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2013
    Location:
    Containment Area for Relocated Yankees
    If it's just a matter of might, sure, the Bajorans could not independently dislodge the federation from the base. On the other hand, states have diplomatically have the right to refuse to launch missions from their territory, even when a foreign country operates that base. As the senior Bajoran official at DS9, Kira would be the one to have immediate say over what missions are launched from DS9, regardless of who would command the Defiant.
     
  12. C.E. Evans

    C.E. Evans Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2001
    Location:
    Ferguson, MO, USA
    From the scene, it seems like it was a case of Worf challenging Kira's authority and Kira reminding him who was in charge in Sisko's absence.

    "Mister Worf, the Captain has given us our orders and I intend for us to follow them until he issues new ones."
    --Kira Nerys
     
  13. Captain Clark Terrell

    Captain Clark Terrell Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2013
    Location:
    The Captain's Table
    There's nothing confusing about that at all. She's the liaison officer between the two organizations, so she should answer to both. She's a representative of the Bajoran militia, but she serves under the command of a Starfleet officer. By definition, she should have one foot in each camp at all times.

    --Sran
     
  14. LiLiKitty

    LiLiKitty Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2013
    I have the same problem with Kira commanding the Defiant as I do with O'Brien being on the Defiant acting as engineer, yet still clearly assigned as DS9's chief engineer. As well, Cadet/Ensign/Lt. Nog acting as helmsman on the Defiant and showing up as O'Brien's engineering assistant on the station. And really, what is Sisko doing commanding both the station and the ship?

    It's all very messy and confusing. In military organizations, a person is stationed to just one place with very specific duties one has been trained to fulfill. When has Kira received training for command of a warp powered ship? Of course, it could be equally asked what training did she receive to be an administrator on a space station?

    For me, these sorts of things require the old "suspension of disbelief," but it is quite annoying!
     
  15. C.E. Evans

    C.E. Evans Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2001
    Location:
    Ferguson, MO, USA
    ^^^
    It helps a lot if you think that Starfleet does things differently in the future than we do today.
     
  16. Roboturner913

    Roboturner913 Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2011
    Maybe the Defiant is considered an "extension" of the station, thus the command structure is the same on both the station and the ship.
     
  17. Tomalak

    Tomalak Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2003
    Location:
    Manchester
    Yeah, it was always an ancillary ship, with limited range. It was also initially assigned to Sisko for one mission. Obviously it came with it's own crew, and Sisko picked his officers from the station to be his senior staff. We don't see any Bajoran techs on the ship, Kira and Odo are exceptions of captain's discretion.
     
  18. Timo

    Timo Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2003
    Let's also remember that the Defiant isn't exactly an example of standard Starfleet practice. The lemon of a prototype ship was given to Sisko for a suicide mission; that the ship ended up surviving the mission was a surprise to Starfleet, and probably to Sisko as well. It's essentially a piece of bureaucratic jetsam now, much like the whole DS9 affair: exception piled upon exception.

    A more orderly starbase closer to home would no doubt have a more orderly commander, with a thing or two to say about how his or her attached ship assets are crewed and used. But Sisko revels in his exceptions, and Starfleet is delighted to have this "special arrangement" where a low-ranking outsider manages to become the de facto religious leader of the entire planet, even if this means turning a blind eye to various rules and regulations.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  19. Tomalak

    Tomalak Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2003
    Location:
    Manchester
    What's perhaps surprising is that Starfleet didn't seek to replace Sisko, or appoint a senior officer above him. He's initially appointed essentially to coordinate relief efforts on Bajor, then accidentally finds himself commander of an increasingly critical outpost. I guess he proves that he can get the job done, albeit in unconventional ways. Where more by-the-book captains like Keogh and Saunders failed, he got a result.
     
  20. MacLeod

    MacLeod Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2001
    Location:
    Great Britain
    It might not have looked good to the Bajoran's if Starfleet decided to remove their Emissary to the prophets. Sure Starfleet never really liked the fact that he was but from a PR point of view so long as he was getting the job done there was no need to remove or replace him.