Khan's Into Darkness Appearance change finally explained

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies XI+' started by BlueMetroid, Feb 27, 2014.

  1. JarodRussell

    JarodRussell Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Yep.
     
  2. mlk

    mlk Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I bet they killed off all their gingers
     
  3. Set Harth

    Set Harth Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Yeah, Klingons are supposed to have honor.
     
  4. Commishsleer

    Commishsleer Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    For every one 'rage-a-holic fanatic' I'll give you 10 Abrams has 'destroyed Star Trek (and my childhood :lol:).

    I might have said the same thing about Berman Trek when it came out. Yes I may have thought Berman destroyed Star Trek all those years ago - at least a little bit. Although my childhood was always intact as I had novels and VHS tapes
     
  5. BigJake

    BigJake Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I'm not sure about that at all, actually. The latter are certainly out there, but AFAICT the former have a pronounced tendency to conflate any critic or skeptic of NuTrek with that mentality and thence to imagine its being far more widespread than it actually is.
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2014
  6. Commishsleer

    Commishsleer Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    The same could be said of either side. Just because for example you say that you don't care/mind about Khan's ethnicity doesn't mean you're a rage-a-holic Abrams fanatic.
     
  7. BigJake

    BigJake Vice Admiral Admiral

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    In theory, yes; in practice I don't see "either side" behaving that way equally often, at least not here on these boards. (Although I do note this dynamic seems to be changing for the better overall.)
     
  8. Belz...

    Belz... Commodore Commodore

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    I'm not sure Khan's ethnicity was ever established clearly anyway.
     
  9. M'Sharak

    M'Sharak Definitely Herbert. Maybe. Moderator

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    It was vague, at best, and haphazardly done. Khan's entire back-story in "Space Seed" consisted of not much more than a couple of lines - supposition and broad general statement, mostly, and much of that was later ignored or rewritten for TWoK.
     
  10. BigJake

    BigJake Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Sorry, but I should very much like to nominate this sort of stock response for the aforementioned cheat sheet.

    However clear or unclear the specifics of his ethnicity may not be at any point, he is always named Khan Noonien Singh, a name with conspicuously South Asian resonance. That's why even non-Trekkie audience members were able to twig to the oddness of his being played by a white guy. So this really strikes me as being a bit of a dodge.
     
  11. Set Harth

    Set Harth Vice Admiral Admiral

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    How was any of it "rewritten" for TWOK? At best it was left unmentioned, but that's not the same as rewriting it.
     
  12. thumbtack

    thumbtack Commodore Commodore

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    Going from a product of selective breeding to a product of genetic engineering is a pretty big rewrite.
     
  13. JarodRussell

    JarodRussell Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Yeah, like... anyone... noticed that.

    Like I stated before, if you were able to show me that any of these fished for in hindsight complaints about TWOK showed up in at least one review at the time of TWOK's release, I consider accepting it as legitimate argument. But until that, I state that nobody even noticed that and that it wasn't an issue at all. Nobody went out of TWOK thinking "Dude, they totally whitewashed Khan!" or "Dude, they changed his entire backstory!" because the writers actively didn't. People went out thinking "Dude, Chekov had never met Khan!" and "Dude, was Carol that blond technician?!"
     
  14. thumbtack

    thumbtack Commodore Commodore

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    Well, I was 3 at the time but we've all been told by our elders that negative reviews of TWOK were as few and far between as negative reviews for STID.

    And, in both cases, came primarily from fans.
     
  15. BigJake

    BigJake Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Indeed. Not to mention that "selective breeding" and "genetic engineering" are not incompatible.

    Of all the forms of continuity tailgunning, "but TWOK did it too" is so very often the wrongest and lamest. (Closely matched by the equally silly "you're just like the crazy fans who hated TWOK!!!")
     
  16. Commishsleer

    Commishsleer Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I don't think they used the term 'Whitewashed' in that way when TWOK was released.

    And I think 'genetically engineered' is just updating the Khan story for the 21st century. The details are just changed - not the intention. Genetic engineering wasn't dreamed of realistically in the 60s or 80s.
     
  17. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    As said way upthread, no home video, no easy screencaps, no transcript sites, direct comparisons weren't possible the way they are today.

    I wonder how long it was between the last rerun of "Space Seed" and the debut of WoK?
     
  18. thumbtack

    thumbtack Commodore Commodore

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    An occasionally pompous abuse of the English language won't transform the definition of duplicity. Reasonably equivalent standards should be applied to both universes if one hopes to avoid the appropriate appellation.

    Imagine an anonymous and presumably grown man giving the same three reasons for hating Abrams Trek that he gave for loving First Contact. Should such a man be taken seriously?

    I'll continue to tailgun the continuity wherever I encounter continuity based bias.
     
  19. Ryan8bit

    Ryan8bit Commodore Commodore

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    Since it was in syndication, the chances are that somewhere it played within days. And a small portion of fans may have had VCRs or other technology capable of recording. If comparisons were to be made, it was definitely possible.

    Genetic engineering was the update in TWOK.
     
  20. BigJake

    BigJake Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Well, going by this I suppose I can trust you to know about "pompous abuse of the English language." But desperate attempts to pretend equivalence where none exists should be called out for what they are. "Ricardo Montalban was white* so what's the big deal" and "they totes rewrote Khan in TWOK*" are perfect examples of this.

    * On account of he wasn't, and they didn't (CommishSleer has it right about the latter), and those are sort of problems for claiming that he was and they did.

    And presumably you'll continue to completely miss the mark in doing so, and continue wondering why your arguments fail to impress.