Khan Side By Side Review

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies I-X' started by austen_pierce, Aug 28, 2013.

  1. Grant

    Grant Commodore Commodore

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    The only significant difference between the ABC cut and the director's cut is the ABC cut uses close-ups for the Kirk/Saavik turbo-lift scene---as seen here..............


    [COLOR=#dbdbdb][COLOR=#aabbcc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRYlPifDUBg[/COLOR][/COLOR]
     
  2. Grant

    Grant Commodore Commodore

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    I disagree----there is no "way to go."

    If you prefer the theatrical cut--you get stuck with wrong color timing in HD

    If you prefer the Director's cut you don't get to see it in HD.

    If you prefer the ABC cut you have to watch an old VHS tape.


    How about a proper HD release, with proper color timing and all 3 versions of the movie and all the deleted/alternate scenes?

    Oops, we're talking about paramount--never mind. :scream:
     
  3. DrBeverly

    DrBeverly Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    I watched the blu-ray before reading the forum and comments about the 'blue-ness' of the transfer, and I didn't notice anything. In hindsight, it's really different, but none of this occurred to me when I was watching the film, and didn't affect my enjoyment in the slightest.
     
  4. Grant

    Grant Commodore Commodore

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    I have seen TWOK 30 times over the years and if I was shown a version where Regula was blue-gray instead of red/brown-----I would have noticed and I did.

    But if you don't notice then I guess it doesn't matter. I guess it's okay to change something as long as some folks don't notice.
     
  5. 22 Stars

    22 Stars Commodore Commodore

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  6. Grant

    Grant Commodore Commodore

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    The whole point of Blu-ray was simple but ambitious---collect the all versions of a movie and present them with the best clarity and color accuracy possible and in the case of 'claasic' titles have a plethora of nice bonus features....

    The TWOK Blu-ray fails in every respect.

    Collects only one version of the 3 versions of the film.
    (which everyone at the time scoffed at, saying 'don't worry the inevitable double dip will be here soon'---it's been 4 years and they just missed their best marketing opportunity until the 50th anniversary in 2016--7 years since the first release.)

    Incorrect color timing.

    Lack of proper extras such as deleted scenes, out-takes, and a commentary from a solid Trek/movie expert--as opposed to simply the director and a 'celebrity fan'.

    Elimination of previous extras---such as the text commentary by the Okudas

    Okay, TWOK isn't Citizen Kane, but it's the Trek standard and a classic of the genre---too bad Paramount didn't sell off the property years ago.

    Ironically TWOK isn't the worst offender in the TOS movie Blu-rays as the other 5 don't even have a proper restoration of the original film elements.

    TOS Blu-ray collection = fail.
     
  7. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Wow.... not that blue McFly....
     
  8. trevanian

    trevanian Rear Admiral

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    Trouble with this assessment that when films deteriorate with age they go red (water from JAWS turned pink less than two decades after its release), so if they looked at the prints even 10 years later, they were already probably fading that way. I saw a theatrical screening of a 35mm print of TWOK less than a decade ago and it was so OTT red it was almost like there was a filter over the movie and it most definitely did not recapture the theatrical experience I had with the film (7 or 8 times during first-run, and at four different cinemas.)

    TWOK is a very red movie compared to TMP, but that's true even on the BR. I think what most people are remembering of the film is the way TWOK looked on VHS and laserdisc and DVD, which was pronouncedly red, probably from somebody cranking a knob too far.

    It's probably hard to get a good line on what the color is supposed to be, because of the ambient color lighting on the bridge scenes and other sets. Part of the problem on these films is that nobody's skin tones look all that good, probably because they're reflecting all these unpleasant grey to beige tones off the set walls onto the faces. I remember thinking that when Kirk squares off against Kruge near the end of SFS, 'this is the first time since the series that anybody has got good skin tone' (probably the only thing I remember liking about the last half of that movie!)

    For some reason this issue seemed to be minimized once they got the new bridge in TFF & TUC; even though the walls differ drastically (from ARCHITECTURAL DIGEST warmth to submarine movie grey) in these, you don't get the feeling these people's lifeforce is being sapped up by the bulkheads.
     
  9. Grant

    Grant Commodore Commodore

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    Nah, all the promotional material and stills and photos and tie-in products many of which I still have----all had regula as red/brown back in 1982---NOT blue/gray.

    The Blu-ray is dead wrong unless every bit of material they ever releaed back in the day was wrong too.
     
  10. Grant

    Grant Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2006
    Making of Trek 2 Regula brown



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    TWOK calendar---Regula brown





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  11. Grant

    Grant Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
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    This is bullsh!t


    http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/twokhd/twokhd0733.jpg


    This is bullsh!t

    http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/twokhd/twokhd0735.jpg




    What may have happened is that in post production they took the filmed scenes of Regula etc and tinted them red/brown to achieve the look they wanted---but during the restoration they simply transferred the film as it originally was.

    This happened recently with the US Blu-ray of Conan the barbarian (1982)---there was a scene shot 'day for night' where they, in 1982, darkened the scene so the Conan was running from wolves just before sunrise. But in the 2011 Blu-ray release the same scene is shown as broad daylight---thus removing the idea that he has been fleeing these wolves all night or whatever. When they later re-released the Blu-ray in the UK they listened to the complaints about the scene and remembered to darken the scene so that it matched what had been scene in theater and all of these years.
    Maybe that's what happened in the Blu-ray of TWOK in the Blu-ray screencaps linked above, but it was never meant to be that blue.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2013
  12. austen_pierce

    austen_pierce Captain Captain

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    I (the OP) finally now own TWOK on BluRay.

    I love the HD experience.

    I dislike the blue everything.

    I HATE that this extends to the red uniforms and the ambient red alert lighting, both of which are now a deep, ruddy orange. Those bright red uniforms were (guilty admission) one of the things I loved about this movie, changed from the boring uniforms of TMP.

    Until we get a decent HD release (who knows...) I do still have my Director's Cut DVDs. :rolleyes:
     
  13. Epsilon-9

    Epsilon-9 Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Well I have all of them on Region 2 DVD first editions / SE / the son of the original motion picture collection (if Paramount says so):rolleyes: and the hopeless bluray with sick DNR and botched up 70mm Dolby film and I thought Paramount took things Paramount. Importance, obviously not.

    This is by far the best for listening to the film in its purest over bluray and DVD which has a single missing sound effect on the English language track that is faint spark like sound effect. WOW I must have :vulcan: hearing to spot that years ago.

    Thank goodness for the purity of LASERDISC. :bolian:


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    I prefer to play the classic film though my DOLBY CP500 in USER1 Pro-Logic with Dolby A-type off as its not needed here.

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    Maybe the only home cinema to use two professional LUCASFILM LTD THX SOUND SYSTEM'S and Sony SDDS. :techman:

    Captures are off the CRT with camera mode set to SR/AUTO

    Time counter I left switched on so you can see the time frame.

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    Its tricky to get the camera to react to the contrast and odd colour values off the CRT screen over LCD screen or video projector but I'm not starting up the projector which would show a little more SCOPE width over the CRT that has a slight % of over-scan.

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    The blue is slightly overexposed due to the camera. I can try other settings but it adds in horroble lines that camera adds in artificially.

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    Generally speaking anyone who is proud enough to still own the USA NTSC pressing would know how it looks on TV or projector with some up-scaling to 1080i use on my projector though the AVR Onkyo TH SR-875 which does a neat job of it.

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    Picture came out a little blued as I was running it as PLAY. The Pioneer DVL-909 has digital freeze pause so it can still frame on CLV discs but the digital freeze tends to add in a stepping noise along image so I try with some shots to take a picture as its playing and hope I don't get motion-blur due to moving image.

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  14. The Baby Stig

    The Baby Stig Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Sorry, but that looks atrocious.

    I'd never noticed the blue shift in the blu-ray before. I'll have to go back and compare with my Director's Cut DVD. If it's bad, I'll have to rip it to disk and do some color correction.
     
  15. Grant

    Grant Commodore Commodore

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    The Blu-ray has problems but too much DNR is not one of them.

    By the way where does side 1 end and side 2 begin?
     
  16. Kronos

    Kronos Admiral Admiral

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    Nothing will ever look as neat as a Laserdisc, really feel like you've bought something.

    Oh, the ST2 blu-ray is next to worthless, still waiting for a decent transfer.
     
  17. Epsilon-9

    Epsilon-9 Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Bottom line is I'm a listener and ex projectionist and these bluray a TRAIN WRACK of a mess.

    The Dolby mix for STTMP may not be that dyer directors cut which as so many missing Foley effects and sound effects of the bridge alarm sounds like a pack of ally cats meowing.

    There is echo added to Scott on the intercom before the Enterprise goes to warp that echoes annoyingly on the side wall surrounds and stage right. It should be clear dry sound not sounding like the Enterprise inside the Merseyside tunnel. WTF!

    The mix on the film doesn't sound like the rare 70mm six-track Dolby Stereo, which I would like to listen too and feel as well.

    Its an okay mix but I'd use the LASERDISC USA pressing as that is as near close to 35mm DOLBY STEREO in decent THX sound system you'd ever hear at its purest form.

    ST II is the same with missing single sound effect as English 5.1 only.

    ST III has a opening credits issue with scope that is annoying.

    STIV has possible dynamic range reduction when the crew sees the new USS Enterprise NCC-1701-A just as the shuttle clears USS Excelsior, the score lacks 70mm six-track Dolby Stereo slam depth that I only heard and felt in THX Sound System at the Empire Leicester Square, Sunday 8th October 1989.

    ST V has dialouge panning issues from the first line "I thought weapons was forbidden on this planet" Its been centre rather than panned to stage right with a mild soft half centre mix.

    The rest of the dialouge panning is a TRAIN WRECK of a mess. It sounds like dialouge track mix which would be separate track has been messed with by some teenager using a diy crappy Pro-Tools wired up to some egg boxes using Dolby pro-logic II music mode, and he should have his fingers super-glued never to near a mixing console ever again.

    The bass has reduction with Klingon belching its only deeper in German if I can recall NOT ENGLISH!

    Paramount Pictures should all be ashamed of themselves.

    I had email from Paramount a few years ago as it only took me seconds to know its a RIP OFF! The person I spoke to is liar. He said they meet studio standards. Yeah right and am ex projectionist to knows what to look for and listen.

    DO YOURSELVES ALL A BIG FAVOUR IF YOU'RE STAR TREK MOVIE FANS. BUY A LASRERDISC PLAYER AND THE USA LETTERBOX EDITIONS.

    Okay some of the DVD are not too bad and best are the SE editions but still that missing sound effect on STAR TREK II but I doubt most of you wouldn't even care to listen?

    STAR TREK THE MOTION PICTURE DVD should be burnt!

    STAR TREK III is fine

    STAR TREK IV is okay it still lacks that 70mm slam at the end on the score.

    STAR TREK V doesn't have the botched dialouge panning issues and the film uses a lot of dialouge panning nice mix from the Todd-AO stages.

    STAR TREK VI is fine
     
  18. Flying Spaghetti Monster

    Flying Spaghetti Monster Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Right now I only watch the DVD (which is the directors cut) and not the blue-ray, until they get the blue color timing fixed. It's bad
     
  19. jimbotron

    jimbotron Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    The TOS Movie collection is definitely a mixed bag. Only 1-3 are watchable, and while 2 has a nice grain structure, it's blue-shifted. A good comparison between the "before" and "after" would be to compare Spock's funeral in 2 and 3, specifically Kirk's close-up, as well as the TMP stock footage in 2.

    It seems like the DNR in 3-6 gets progressively worse. 3 is satisfactory. 4 is borderline. 5 is pretty bad. 6 is miserable.

    I notice in Star Trek V, the contrast has been boosted to the point where "God" is totally invisible in the pillar of light in some of the shots.

    For Star Trek III, there's only one time in the movie where you can see film grain, and that's on Genesis when it's snowing. I guess they had to dial it back, otherwise the DNR would wipe out or blur out some of the snow.
     
  20. Indysolo

    Indysolo Commodore Commodore

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    Side two begins with the exterior shot of Regula 1 and then the landing party beams onto the station. You can now deduce where side one ends. :)