Khan - New IDW mini series - SPOILERS!!!!!

Discussion in 'Trek Literature' started by Dimesdan, Oct 14, 2013.

  1. iguana_tonante

    iguana_tonante Admiral Admiral

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    Of course. I never intended it differently.

    (On the other hand, I saw you butchering the rules of fashion with unthinking abandon. That's evil enough for me! :p )
     
  2. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Like I said, I was never talking about whether I approved of Khan's actions. I was just concerned about whether he'd be an interestingly written character.
     
  3. Smoked Salmon

    Smoked Salmon Commander Red Shirt

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    I see the preview just released alludes to a change in appearance from Montalban to Cumberbatch. Well at least they are trying to grovel back to the fans some way. It was never fair to expect an actor like Cumberbatch to try and have to reflect such an iconic character portrayed by such a different type of actor. At least they are trying to offer some sort of half arsed explanation for the casting choice.
     
  4. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    You mean like Sherlock Holmes?

    If a role is iconic, then it's very likely to end up being played by multiple different actors, often of very different types. Heck, different actors have been playing the same role since the dawn of theater. How many thousands of Antigones or Hamlets or Cyranos have there been? And how is it unfair to an actor to expect them to act?
     
  5. JD

    JD Admiral Admiral

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    I don't know if I'd call it alluding.
    A character shows an image of Montalban Khan and then says outright that he looks nothing like Cumberbatch Khan. They then ask C Khan to explain, and that is where the backstory flashbacks begin.
     
  6. ProwlAlpha

    ProwlAlpha Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Another Khan-centric series, what next, the final mission of the NCC-1701 before refit or another what really happened to the Defiant. Or how about another take on the Mirror Universe that is completely different from everything else that was established.

    There are so many other good stories that need to be told, finished,and or elaborated on.
     
  7. JD

    JD Admiral Admiral

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    This is only the second Khan back story we've gotten.
     
  8. ProwlAlpha

    ProwlAlpha Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Yes, but we got a number of Khan books, and other Khan-centric stories is what i am getting at.
     
  9. Smoked Salmon

    Smoked Salmon Commander Red Shirt

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    Sherlock Holmes was a literary character open to interpretation and adaption. Khan was as much a visual and performance based characterisation as he was written one.

    TWOK has not been surpassed by STIF in terms of acclaim and the fact is that Cumberbatch was very much having to step into a role where he would automatically be compared to an iconic performance. That is different to an interpretation of Holmes. He was always destined to have a hard time breaking away from that and the attempts to do so have reduced him Khan to something of a largely unfamiliar bad guy who just happens to share the name. I wouldn't be the first person to suggest that had he remained John Harrison it would've made little difference to STID. Therefore I think having him carry the burden of the Khan name was a disservice to Benedict. He should've been able to create his own bad guy from scratch (in terms of performance).
     
  10. Therin of Andor

    Therin of Andor Admiral Admiral

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    Surely IDW have a right to pursue tie-ins to the current movie, the biggest money-earning Trek movie to date?

    "Countdown", "Nero" and "Spock Reflections" all sold well, AFAIK. Possibly better than the "Ongoing" series. Many of us have been anticipating that there'd be a "Countdown to Darkness" and a "Khan" backstory mini-series. And so there should be.

    IDW's previous "Khan" comic was a retelling of ST II, filling a comic adaptation gap that has been there since the 80s.

    This board would have been filled with angry comments such as, "Orci & Kurtzman are gutless. How much cooler would this film had been if they'd allowed Cumberbatch to tackle... Khan?"

    You know it would have happened! ;)
     
  11. Turtletrekker

    Turtletrekker Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Sounds like they butchered the character again. Moustache twirling villains who just do bad to be bad are just boring and not worth my time. Pass.
     
  12. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Admiral Admiral

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    Actually, their last Khan comic was Ruling in Hell, IDW's take on Khan's life on Ceti Alpha V.

    Well, I for one thought John Harrison, renegade Starfleet officer turned terrorist made a more interesting villain than Khan.
     
  13. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    A spurious distinction. Fictional characters are fictional characters. There was a time when only one actor, William Gillette, had ever played Sherlock Holmes -- in the 1899 play that Gillette cowrote with Conan Doyle. Gillette's performance was iconic and introduced the phrase "Elementary, my dear Watson" and the calabash pipe to the popular perception of Holmes. I'm sure that back then, there were people who were upset when H.A. Saintsbury took over the role for the touring company, or when John Barrymore or Basil Rathbone took over onscreen. All these things are relative. For all we know, a century from now, a dozen different actors may have played versions of Khan. Just because we've only seen two so far, that doesn't mean it's intrinsically wrong to recast the role.

    I mean, come on, Montalban only played the character twice. I can somewhat understand the attitudes of people who resisted the idea of anyone other than Shatner playing Kirk, because he had over a hundred opportunities (counting the animated series) to delineate and solidify his characterization. But Montalban didn't even play the same version of Khan in TWOK that he did in "Space Seed." The two had the same name, but one was a cunning manipulator and seducer with an aim toward galactic conquest and the other was a raving madman out for personal revenge. So I'd hardly call that an indelible, definitive characterization.


    I don't see how. There have been many iconic performances of Holmes. People of my generation grew up seeing Jeremy Brett as the absolutely definitive Holmes, and before that many saw Basil Rathbone the same way. You may think your objections are unique to this character, but I've heard the same kneejerk resistance to novelty from many Holmes fans in the past, people who refused to accept anyone other than Brett in the role. I've seen fans complaining about Robert Downey, Jr.'s Holmes in much the same tone that you're complaining about Cumberbatch's Khan. You may see a difference, but I don't. I've heard it all before, about many different characters.


    I'm sorry, but it sounds like you're saying that Khan is a more iconic and familiar character than Sherlock Holmes, and while that may be true for a few very insular Trekkies, in general it's quite a ridiculous notion. Khan has only been depicted twice before, not counting tie-ins. And, again, in two very different ways that I don't even consider the same character. Holmes is an immensely more well-defined fictional persona. There's thousands of times more cultural baggage attached to Holmes than there is to Khan. Khan is a pop-culture lightweight, inconsequential in comparison.
     
  14. slappy

    slappy Commodore Commodore

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    Apparently nobody's talking about the actual comic lol.

    I liked it alot.

    Except the use of a couple of actions and dialogue lifted right from the movie. There was no need for that. Why would a kid be saying and doing the exact same things years later? Seems like pandering and nobody that buys this comic needs any more pandering to.
     
  15. Caretaker

    Caretaker Commodore Premium Member

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    Although Samuel Cogley doesn't get much to do, it's nice to know he still lawyering in the alternate reality.
     
  16. bullethead

    bullethead Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I too would've liked to see Harrison stay Harrison, but even if they didn't make Harrison Khan, they could've done him in ST3 or something else. Not using something immediately doesn't preclude using it later.
     
  17. BlueMetroid

    BlueMetroid Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    A couple questions for people in "the know"....

    In the first issue that was just released, other than what was said in the 7 page preview, are any explanations for Khan's appearance change given? Or are they waiting for later in the series to drop that bomb shell?

    Does anyone know if all 4 Khan issues will be combined into one set like past IDW stuff? And if so, when? I'm wondering whether I should buy the individual issues or holdout for the compilation, if one is coming.
     
  18. Nob Akimoto

    Nob Akimoto Captain Captain

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    I think it's pretty much a given they'll release a TPB edition at some point. The question is how much you want the various variant covers for the standard issues.
     
  19. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Admiral Admiral

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    Graphic novel anthologies are usually released within a month of the final issue's release. Since this Khan series is actually six issues long, issue 6 will be released March 2014. The graphic novel will likely be released sometime in March or perhaps even in April, depending on when in March the issue comes out.
     
  20. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    ^The term you want is "trade paperback."
     

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