Kes V Seven of Nine

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Voyager' started by Clym, Jan 16, 2009.

?

Kes V Seven of Nine

  1. Kes

    20.9%
  2. 7 of 9

    58.3%
  3. I liked them both equally

    19.1%
  4. I disliked them both equally

    1.7%
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Tachyon

    Tachyon Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2009
    Location:
    Finland
    I have to say Seven. She was more interesting than Kes, yet shamelessly overused, which is something I still don't appreciate very much.
     
  2. Gorf

    Gorf Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2009
    I partly agree with you, Tachyon. In general I dislike both characters equally and that's how I've voted. I found Kes extremely boring and way too sugar sweet, and I was never a big fan of her acting either. Seven...well, I liked the idea to begin with, but then she started taking over the show and I got more than enough of her fast.
     
  3. The Borg Queen

    The Borg Queen Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2006
    Location:
    Does it matter?
    But... She saved the show.



    With her ginormous boobies.
     
  4. Lashmore

    Lashmore Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2008
    Still...I just find it ironic that even if their acting is sub-par or their clothing makes completely no practical sense at all and the rest...

    Trek fans always jump in to protect the one with big (only made to look perfect by catsuit, not so good in reality) tits as if they were perfect in everyway.

    Wow, for a so called 'intellectual' audience we're pretty much the most shallow when it comes to women.
     
  5. kimc

    kimc Coffee Mod Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2003
    Location:
    Minneapolis, MN USA
    Plus creepy. Please re-activate your creepy filter before posting again. Thank you.
     
  6. phenyx2

    phenyx2 Lieutenant Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2007
    Location:
    Sparta, MO
    Kes...extremely beautiful...and she could act!
     
  7. 2 of 10

    2 of 10 Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2008
    Location:
    Los Gatos, Ca
    I liked the Third season Kes, she did save Seven's life in "The Gift" Seven had more of an impact off the in the show. Kes took more time to develop her character, however, she became a very competent nurse. She was much better than Tom was in helping the Doc. I liked them both, for different reasons...
     
  8. Tachyon

    Tachyon Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2009
    Location:
    Finland
    There was definitely more effort put on Kes during the season 3.
     
  9. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2000
    Location:
    In the lap of squalor I assure you.
    I liked it that she was going to become a doctor eventually, and even her children would become doctors... None of this leveling off at being unexceptional.
     
  10. Tachyon

    Tachyon Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2009
    Location:
    Finland
    Kes had her moments. But it was kind of amusing that during the season 3 she was kind of channeling Seven alread with her catsuit. Lol.

    At what point was the decision made to give Kes the boot? Because I think there was a genuine effort to be seen on the episodes on season 3 to make her more interesting and more active character, but then things happened the way they happened. Was this "extra push" written because they already knew she would leave or was it really the writers trying hard to give her something to do?
     
  11. ZERO_of_ZERO

    ZERO_of_ZERO Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2008
    Location:
    Edinburgh

    7ins clowths is good as it keeps her warm and deesint,
    and hur boobys is prefect, and she is not a cat she is a huooman.

    What dus "intellectual" meen?
     
  12. 24thcenstfan

    24thcenstfan Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2009
    Location:
    USA
    This pretty much sums up my opinion of the two characters. I tend to enjoy more intense characters. Although, I didn't mind the attention Seven was getting storyline wise...as I found the character intriguing.
     
  13. Lynx

    Lynx Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2001
    Location:
    Lynx Empire
    What I know the decision to dump Kes came between season 3 and 4.

    During season 3, those in charge, worried over what they saw as bad ratings for the show compared to TNG decided to bring in a new character, a Borg character or a "sexy babe" (it ended up becoming a "sexy Borg).

    Since they (in my opinion) were to greedy to add a new character, they decided to dump one of the original main characters. Obviously, the first choice was Harry Kim.

    If we look at season 3, we can see that Kes seem to be more important. She breaks up with Neelix (although doing that while being possessed by an alien entity, the whole thing was badly handled by the writers), we have some great Kes episodes in "Warlord", "Before AnD After" and "Darkling" and she plays an important role in episodes like "The Swarm" and "Scorpion #1 as well.

    Compare that to Kim who features one episode, "Favorite Son" and only has a significant role in "Alter Ego".

    In "Scorpion #1", Kim is badly injured and close to death.

    But then something happens. Kim survives against all odds in "Scorpion #2, instead Kes dissapears in the following episode.

    What happened was that a silly inside poll among the staff of a magazine showed actor Garret Wang as one of "the 50 most handsome" which made those in charge change their minds and dump Kes instead.

    it has never been confirmed by those in charge, who instead have come up with rather lame explanations for dumping Kes but it's plausible that they did plan to dump Kim but changed their minds.

    An unconfirmed rumor says that Jennifer Lien didn't know that she was going to be fired until they handled her the script for "The Gift".

    The other actors weren't happy with the decision either and both Mulgrew and Beltran have stated their dislike over how Jennifer Lien and her character was treated.

    As for the catsuit which Kes had in some episodes, it was probably a silly attempt to "sex up" the character, obviously Braga seem to have an affection for catsuits (Troi, Seven, T'Pol).

    As for Kes suddenly having long hair in "Before And After", it was a result of Jennifer Lien having an allergic reaction to the glue which was used to fit the Ocampa ears on her head. By letting her have long hair, they simply could omit the ears.
     
  14. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2000
    Location:
    In the lap of squalor I assure you.
    It's the homophobia.

    There's no way Jen and Jeri could share a sound stage and their heat not infect the whole situation sexually right up to the top of the masthead. It's just obvious that the TPTB were massively conflicted, they knew that they wouldn't have any choice but to make these two beautiful women get it on for absolutely no artistic reason whatsoever but they despised all things gay. Reason won out as bigotry trumped contrived story telling. I think?

    It was a conundrum.
     
  15. Tachyon

    Tachyon Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2009
    Location:
    Finland
    I have never heard before that Harry was also under the threat to leave. Wow. I must have been under some rock somewhere in the Delta Quadrant. Lol. Harry was such a weak character. Even La Forge had more things going on with him than Harry was.
     
  16. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2001
    Location:
    Per Ardua
    Neither character was very well thought out by 'The Powers That Be'.

    Create a character with a nine-year lifespan when Trek was at its' most popular? If Voyager had ever made it to feature film territory the character would have had to be re-written. Plus the thoughts of Neelix pawing all over a one-year old... ewwww. Way to go for the pedophile demographic Paramount.

    Then they promptly abandon the pedophile demo to try and snare twelve-year old boys with Seven of Nine. The Wesley Crusher of the Delta Quadrant, socially awkward and intellectually superior to everyone on the ship. I ended up liking nothing about this character. Then the catsuit... ugh. I was twenty-five when this show premiered, twenty-eight when this character came along, I already knew what a booby looked like. Thanks Paramount.

    Kes wins because Jennifer Lien just ended up being so much better an actress when given the opportunity.
     
  17. es!

    es! Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2009
    Location:
    Austria
    Most definitely Seven. The writers were able to come up with nice ideas for this character, and Jeri was able to perform superbly. Remember her impersonation of the Doctor in Seven's body. Brilliant.
     
  18. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2000
    Location:
    In the lap of squalor I assure you.
    The didn't come up with any new or expected ideas for her, it was just Data all over again.
     
  19. exodus

    exodus Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2003
    Location:
    The Digital Garden
    Data desired to be human, Seven didn't. Often times she fought against it.

    Data didn't need to come to terms with helping to enslave hundreds if not thousands of lives. Data didn't defy Picard willingly. Data didn't need to be taught morals & ethics.

    Tuvok is more similar to Data IMO.
     
  20. kimc

    kimc Coffee Mod Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2003
    Location:
    Minneapolis, MN USA
    Tuvok certainly didn't want to become human. He was Vulcan and proud of it. In fact, Seven was borg and proud of it even though she was struggling to re-discover her humanity. I thought the two had a lot in common. In fact, as I think about it further Tuvok would have made a better mentor for Seven than the Doctor because he has a very logical approach that Seven seemed to appreciate yet at the same time had been an observer of humanity for quite a while.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.