Kes V Seven of Nine

Discussion in 'Voyager' started by Clym, Jan 16, 2009.

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Kes V Seven of Nine

  1. Kes

    20.9%
  2. 7 of 9

    58.3%
  3. I liked them both equally

    19.1%
  4. I disliked them both equally

    1.7%
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  1. crouteru

    crouteru Captain Captain

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    I voted for Seven.

    Despite the initial reasons for casting Jeri Ryan, I felt that she did a superb job acting wise and she also had some strong material to work with. I did also like Kes, and Jennifer Lien did a good enough job. It would've been interesting to watch her powers develop and to see her grow into old age over the course of the series. She definately had more potential than a rookie Ops officer and a wannabe Ambassador and bad cook.
     
  2. Piper

    Piper Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I've always thought that Kes is a bit of an underrated character. She had more potential than I think the writers recognised, as they never seemed to know quite what to do with her.

    For that reason, Seven was a stronger character in that her arc was far more clearly defined, and reasonably interesting. Unfortunately, her progression to becoming more human is not unlike Data's, which to me always brings it back a bit. It also didn't help that so much of S4, and arguably the subsequent seasons, was devoted to her to the detriment of certain other characters who fell by the wayside.

    For these reasons, although I think that Seven probably is a better character, I would vote for Kes.
     
  3. CaptJimboJones

    CaptJimboJones Vice Admiral Newbie

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    Kes had an interesting storyline and a lot of potential, but it was never used very well. Part of the problem is that (IMO) Jennifer Lien's acting chops just weren't up to the job.

    7 was overused, but overall a much more interesting character. And Jeri Ryan is an utterly spectacular woman to look at.
     
  4. Gov Kodos

    Gov Kodos Admiral Admiral

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    I liked both but have a preference for Seven, especially in season 4. I do wish that they hadn't humanised her so much. I'd rather she'd been used to explore the Borg and what they might have become without the assimilate everything aspect. It might have been used as a long term arc in relation to the Queen's statement of allowing Seven to remain on Voyager. Instead of the Queen being standard villain #1424355, she and Seven could have been a longer arc about getting the Borg to change from the monsters they were.
     
  5. Admiral2

    Admiral2 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Kes. Seven of Nine was just there to be hot in a catsuit. Jennifer Lien was hot enough, but not for the powers that be, apparently.
     
  6. Akiraprise

    Akiraprise Vice Admiral Moderator

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    My feelings as well.

    I liked both characters. But when we compare the two Seven was more fleshed out then Kes in the end.
     
  7. flightmech73

    flightmech73 Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Right of the bat this is how i feel about it too. I think towards the end of Kes's run there was so much more to learn. We were really getting down to what her speices was all about. and i really loved the long hair. I never did like the pixie wig. looked to fake. As far as 7 I cant argue with a hot blond in a cat suit but i think she was over used too. I started calling Voyerger the 7 of 9 show.
     
  8. Lynx

    Lynx Vice Admiral Admiral

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    One thing that I think that we should consider when we are comparing the characters and the actresses are the roles the characters were supposed to have in the show.

    Kes was supposed to be more of a background main character. If we look at the first episodes, the foreground main character was Janeway with Chakotay as no. 2 while Paris, Tuvok and Torres came straight after. The Doctor, Kes, Neelix and Kim were more like background main characters.

    That changed later on when The Doctor got a more prominent role

    However, that meant that Kes was kept in the background in many episodes but when she was given a place under the spotlight, we could actually see that the character had a lot of quality. The same for Jennifer Lien's acting. When she was given the chance to shine, she took it.

    When Seven was brought in, her role was immediately one of the foreground main characters (if not the main character). The show became focused on three characters: Seven, The Doctor and Janeway while the others were in a way shoved in the background. That gave Seven a lot of screen time and it also gave Ryan the opportunity to show her skills more than the amount of screen time that was given to Jennifer Lien.

    Therefore it's hard to compare the characters and the actresses. They were very different and had such different roles.
     
  9. kimc

    kimc Coffee Mod Admiral

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    I have to agree this is the case in episodes like "Warlord".
     
  10. exodus

    exodus Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Now compare "Warlord" to "Infinate Regress".

    Lien was so-so. If she put the emotional impact into "Warlord" like Ryan did with "Regress", there would be no doubt that Kes would have been the breakout character without them ever needing Seven.

    All Seven was is a restart to the character Kes was meant to be.
     
  11. kimc

    kimc Coffee Mod Admiral

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    Both actresses did a fine job in both episodes, imo.
     
  12. exodus

    exodus Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Fair enough.

    I'm sure it's no surprise that I'm siding with the producers on this one.
     
  13. Lynx

    Lynx Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Comparing Seven and Kes by referring to Seven as a "restart of what Kes was meant to be" is actually wrong because there is too much difference between the characters and their presumed roles in the stories.

    If the writers had given Lien the same opportunities as Ryan was given, then the outcome for the character Kes would have been much different. As it was, Kes was underused but actually did shine when allowed to do so.
     
  14. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Yes that was the comparison I made when I first watched VOY. Everything that annoyed me about Deanna annoyed me about Kes, only more so. Too sugarry, lacking any personality other than "Nice Person". (Though Deanna was excellent in her VOY eps, and much more interesting than a lot of TNG).

    I'm just not interested in "Nice Person". I want character flaws. 7 was my all time favorite Trek character for a long time. I understand that if you didn't care for her having all those 7 dominated eps would have been pretty annoying--for me they were just an embarrassment of riches.

    7 was also used for a lot of VOY humour, her arrogance versus the doctor's pomposity etc.. and then there was her touching relationship with Janeway which revealed a lot about Janeway's character..
     
  15. Lashmore

    Lashmore Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    In terms of sexuality...

    Kes by far, she didn't need a Fake catsuit which had padding and a model made for her butt and breasts to look better than they actually were (self esteem issues seven, self esteem)

    But Kes, naturally beautiful, nymph like in movement and in personality. A much more real character to connect with.
     
  16. VulcanGuy

    VulcanGuy Lieutenant

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    Here we go, lulz. Lieutenant Lashmore and his hate of the catsuit makes an appearance in another thread.
     
  17. exodus

    exodus Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    They are the same in the aspect that we would be watching them grow up over the course of the series. Their origin and frame of mind is different but their theme remains the same.

    You can disagree but an opinion or point of view can't be deemed wrong, please keep that in mind in the future.:)
     
  18. kimc

    kimc Coffee Mod Admiral

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    So why do we care about that? :confused:

    Post whatever opinions you want but try not to make it personal. It's just a message board after all. :)
     
  19. Lynx

    Lynx Vice Admiral Admiral

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    There are more differences than similarities between the characters.

    When it comes to Kes, we might call her development "growing up" since she was rather young when she came to Voyager. But in her case it's more about learning and exploring since Kes after all was the equivalent to a human 18-25 years old and therefore could be regarded as a grown-up. Besides that, she had had a rich and happy childhood.

    When it comes to Seven, it's another story. She was abducted by the Borg as a young child and assimilated. In her case, it was more about someone with a ruined childhod who was trying to rebuild her life again.

    The characters also had very different personalities. Therefore it would have been interesting to have both of them on the ship regarding their relationship to Janeway, The Doctor and the other crew members.
     
  20. Jean-Luc Picard

    Jean-Luc Picard Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    For me, it has to be Seven of Nine; her story was developed extremely well, and she added some spice and irregularity to the main cast. She strengthened the connections between the characters, because her interactions with everyone were so strong. Her relationships with each of her fellow crewmembers was unique and distinct, with a different feel to any other that had been on the show. She even made me like Harry Kim at certain points.

    However, I also liked Kes, but I don't think she was treated fairly. She was never really given the chance to develop or grow as Seven did, and her potential was left unexplored. When she was given a chance to shine, it always looked promising (I love "Cold Fire"), but we never got to see anything truly awesome realised.
     
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