Kes V Seven of Nine

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Voyager' started by Clym, Jan 16, 2009.


Kes V Seven of Nine

  1. Kes

  2. 7 of 9

  3. I liked them both equally

  4. I disliked them both equally

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  1. Clym

    Clym Captain Captain

    Jul 5, 2005
    The Dawn of the Third Age of Mankind
    which character do you think was better and added more to the series as a whole?
  2. Evil_Kirkneivel

    Evil_Kirkneivel Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Jul 30, 2006
    That's a tough question for me to answer. Each was so different than the other. Kes was very appealing to me, with her pixie haircut, sensual voice, and intelligence. Seven of Nine was the opposite - in your face lil Abner body in a catsuit to appeal to young (and old) fanboys. Kes was under-used; Seven over-used. They could have easily existed together on the show, since their characters and stories had little in common.

    Seven will always be associated with why Voyager went wrong, but I thought some of her eps were okay. The problem was that the writing became cliched (the writers were, at that time, soap opera television writers, and it showed). Neither character would have been served well in the later years of Voyager, so it's good that Kes left.
  3. Nick Ryder

    Nick Ryder Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Sep 14, 2008
    Milwaukee, WI Da Brew City
    Kes was okay, felt too much like a Deanna Troi-esque character, although that lame '8 year lifespan' thing really sucked, so what? If she lasted to the end and didn't evolve, she would have gotten really old and died by the time they got 'home'.

    Seven was okay, she grew on me toward the end, since really around that time the Doctor got over his 'Data- finding my humanity' arc, so they needed that 'alien' foil. I always wished they would have just brought like Troi onto the show permanently, or somehow have her brought to Voyager. Kes was okay, but Jen Lein at the time wasn't, so it was good that she went when she did. But its still sad that she had to go.
  4. Loupjo

    Loupjo Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    May 11, 2005
    Seven of Nine was by far the more interesting character of the two. She had a lot of potential and was involved in interesting story lines. However she was also used in lots of not so interesting stories and the character was overused. I also didn't really like the way her character developped at all.
    Kes was less interesting but I still voted for her as she never got on my nerves the way Seven did.
  5. billcosby

    billcosby Commodore Commodore

    I can think of two beautifully big reasons.
  6. exodus

    exodus Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Apr 18, 2003
    The Digital Garden
    Seven of Nine, hands down.

    Not only was Seven a better thought out character but Jeri Ryan acted rings around anything Jen Lien brought to the table. Ryan put more emotion into just a simple expression than Lien did in 3 years.
  7. kimc

    kimc Coffee Mod Admiral

    Jan 2, 2003
    Minneapolis, MN USA
    That's my take on it too but then I have a soft spot for the earlier seasons.
  8. exodus

    exodus Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Apr 18, 2003
    The Digital Garden
    I don't know, If Seven can be associated with why Voyager went wrong then what was the reason before that to cause them to replace one character with another?

    Voyager was going downhill way before Seven.

    One character isn't to blame for Voyager's decline, Trek spin-off's had simply run it's course. Trek fans were even getting bored of Trek.
  9. Obi Wana Jones

    Obi Wana Jones Lieutenant Red Shirt

    Jan 2, 2009
    Chesterland, Ohio
    7 of 9 was just plain hot :techman:

    Early Kes did nothing for me; late Kes with long curly hair
    peaked my "intellectual" curiosity. :drool:

    I agree with Nick's evaluations of the characters:

    Kes = Troi; early Kes with short hair/no personality = early Troi, with studip beehive hairdo and really badly cut uniforms.

    7 of 9 = Data "Pinocchio: I want to be a real boy" but with nice ta-tas

    7 of 9 was a much more interesting character.
  10. Johnhead99

    Johnhead99 Commander Red Shirt

    Sep 9, 2008
    I love me some Kes. Her backstory in Pathways is some of the best reading from that era. It was about 40 minutes of pure pleasure for me.
    I like 7 but Kes is where it is at. Hot.
  11. Lynx

    Lynx Vice Admiral Admiral

    Mar 27, 2001
    Lynx Empire
    Kes was a better Star Trek character. She actually personified the spirit of Star Trek with her will to learn and explore. Her mental abilities and her personality made her unique. She wasn't the typical "action-character" like Janeway, Torres and Seven, more a contrast and a complement to them, something that made her very interesting as a character.

    Kes was beautiful, nice, helpful and friendly but also strong-willed, determined, brave and curious. She had a way to get her will without using force or threats. This can be seen in several episodes, like "Resolutions" where she persuaded Tuvok to go back after Janeway and Chakotay, something Kim got almost court-martialed for when he tried.

    Kes's only flaw was the ridiculous lifespan. However, there were hints in some episodes that her lifespan could be prolonged which I think would have happened if she had remained in the show.

    Seven was the kind of character that we have seen in so many movies and series, the typical good-looking and sexy female hero, however she had an interesting background story and her struggle to overcome the years she was a Borg and trying to be human again was remarcable.

    I agree that Seven was over-used and Kes under-used. But I also think that there would have been room for both of them in the series, it would actually have been interesting to see the inter-action between them.

    As for the actresses, both did a terrific job and really gave life to the characters. I must give Jennifer Lien special credit here, considering the fact that she was more inexperienced than Ryan but still did a terrific job. Both actresses deserves best possible credits for their efforts.
  12. teya

    teya Vice Admiral Admiral

    Jun 20, 2001
    2 mi S of Capt Braxton's shopping cart
    Actually, Lynx, Jen started working in her teens and had as much experience as Jeri when she came on Voyager.

    I do agree with you though. While I prefer Seven, I thought both of them did a great job with what they were given.
  13. The Grim Ghost

    The Grim Ghost Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    May 29, 2007
    Thee Olde Spook Shack
    I liked both of them, but I thought 7 or 9 had some better episodes revolve around her. She also just had MORE episodes revolving around her, so perhaps that isn't fair. I would have liked to have seen both of them on the show together.
  14. Captain Gandalf

    Captain Gandalf Commodore Commodore

    Apr 12, 2005
    I agree with this statement. If Kes had stayed on, it would have made more interesting stories, especially if she had developed a relationship with Seven; it's always fun to see two characters interact who are very different from each other.
  15. Orac Zen

    Orac Zen Mischief Manager Super Moderator

    Mar 14, 2000
    This is (basically) my response whenever this topic turns up. I like both characters and think they both brought good things to Voyager. The fact they weren't on the show together for more than an episode or two is, for mine, one of the bigger missed opportunities of the series.
  16. Spock-2012

    Spock-2012 Lieutenant Red Shirt

    Nov 27, 2008
    Inside your head.
    Well, if we had learned more about Kes's abilities, it would have been interesting. Also, she never really had much of a character...we didn't know hobbies so well, and we also never really knew any love interests, I don't think.

    Seven was definately over-used, but in a useful way. We got to see her develop human characteristics, and a love interest. Though she didn't need quite as much attention, even though she was borg and all...

    Both were useful in their own ways, but I would have liked to see Kes more.
  17. john titor

    john titor Captain

    Jan 12, 2009
    the universe
    7 was really annoying, the tone of voice she used was grating to say the least and she was very in your face. Whereas Kes was much more understated. I think Lien was the better actress too as she didn't over act was more subtle in her role.
  18. USS Fardell

    USS Fardell Captain Captain

    Jul 26, 2001
    I also think that both characters could have had coexisted on the show.

    Kes was a good character, and so was Seven.
  19. stj

    stj Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Dec 27, 2006
    the real world
    I really, really liked Jennifer Lien. But Seven of Nine was the better character.
  20. donners22

    donners22 Commodore Commodore

    Jul 12, 2001
    Victoria, Australia
    I found Kes completely bland, though she was treated very badly with the Neelix Is Jealous scenes they had for a while.

    Kes was starting to get a little interesting as she developed her powers, but at the same time, they were too strong to have the character realistically kept around.

    Seven was a fantastic character, so well developed over the years (final romance aside) and brilliantly played. I'll never forget Jeri Ryan playing all those different characters, including a Ferengi. The only problems with Seven were the complete overload of her in season five, and the use of her as a deus ex machina to resolve so many episodes.
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