Kai Winn

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Deep Space Nine' started by SimpleLogic, Feb 5, 2013.

  1. Dale Sams

    Dale Sams Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Dec 29, 2012
    Actually, one could argue that she's welcome with open arms in whatever heavan the Bajorans have. Seemed to me that she had a role to fulfill at the end and she filled it admirably. The Prophets COULD have appeared to her at any time when she stayed up all night praying.
  2. Dover

    Dover Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

    Jan 12, 2013
    I really didn't find her end satisfying at all.

    My issue with the finale is that Winn and Dukat had to die, and I felt that Sisko and Kira each deserved to kill one of them.

    In the overall arc of the series, Kira probably should have killed Dukat as a more direct comeuppance for his actions during the occupation. But if Dukat is the main villain and Sisko is the main hero, fine, pair them off.

    Then Kira should have killed Kai Winn, not for the damage she did to Bajor and the Prophets, but for all those times she did that obnoxious "my child" thing, insinuated that Kira was a whore, and generally just delighted in pushing all of Kira's buttons (like always bringing up what a violent person she is). It would have been very cathartic for Kira to have a justifiable reason to beat the living crap out of her.
  3. Use of Time

    Use of Time Commodore Commodore

    Jul 25, 2012
    Va. Beach, VA
    Winn and Dukat. What was interesting about Dukat was his ability to gradually endear himself to the crew including Kira at times. Every once in a while you would be saying "he's not such a bad kind." Then he would revert to his natural evil self. Fletcher and Alaimo with the addition of Combs often times stole the show from the main cast in my opinion.
  4. dub

    dub Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Sep 13, 2012
    Location? What is this?
    Exactly! I hate Winn for all the right reasons. She was a great character. Deliciously power hungry, selfish in every way, and quick to embrace evil to make gains. Just when you think she's going to change her ways, Winn does something more twisted than you could have imagined. And she had the huge benefit of an outstanding actress to fill her shoes. It's one thing to hate a character because the character is boring, inconsistent, played poorly or written poorly. It's quite another to LOVE to hate a character. And ironically, Winn is one of the reasons why I love DS9.
  5. Dal Rassak

    Dal Rassak Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Jan 31, 2013
    Terok Nor
    I may be alone in this opinion but I think of her as a truly tragic character (while being a royal pain in the behind)...

    One of my favourite scenes is where she speaks to Kira, reaching out for some kind of redemption; as soon as Kira suggests that perhaps the right thing would be for Winn to step down, you see the shutters come down and at that moment you have the key to the character.

    Her devotion is sincere but it is always conditional: I worship you, what do I get in return?

    Having convinced herself she was spared her life to lead the Bajoran people to a new golden age, thus neatly conflating her spiritual yearnings with her wordly ambitions, she could never accept that she isn't the "chosen one". She's so sold on the idea that she's somehow worthy of a higher fate, the very notion that she might better serve in a less exalted capacity is anathema to her.

    She is incapable of true humility and she could never countenance the fact that the fault lies with herself - another thing in common with Dukat.
    She yearns to hear the Prophets' voice but is really only prepared for them to tell her what she wants to hear. Her heart isn't open to the message they are sending her by their silence. Ask yourself why we're not talking to you.

    Her tragedy for me lies in the fact that her desire for goodness is real, but is consistently trumped by her desire for power. With her soul on the line, she still won't give it up, or even see why she should.
    When her gods fall silent, she almost comes to the crucial realization. When she speaks to Kira, she is brought to the very brink of redemption.
    Then it comes down to her leaping over her own shadow for once which she cannot do, and she loses to the worse part of herself.

    I couldn't stand her, which was the entire point, but I can feel sorry for her in that moment. Very subtly done, very poignant.