Just saw "The Cage" on TOSR- Help me out here...the Keeper's voice...

Discussion in 'Star Trek - Original Series' started by gastrof, May 2, 2009.

  1. GSchnitzer

    GSchnitzer Co-Executive Producer Moderator

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    Re: Just saw "The Cage" on TOSR- Help me out here...the Keeper's voice

    Well, I found this comment in Solow's and Justman's book Inside Star Trek: The Real Story:

    "Later, while dubbing various episodes, we took reality one step beyond. We rented a special machine that was used to change the pitch of people's voices without affecting the speed of the sound track, thereby keeping the dialogue 'in sync' with the picture. Although the device was large, clumsy to handle, and expensive, it helped make alien humanoids sound as alien as they looked."

    So, I still don't get how this 1966 "black box" worked, but I take Bob Justman at his word that there was indeed some large, clumsy, expensive tehcnology available to have changed the pitch of Malachi Throne's voice--and, off the top of my head, probably Cloud Williams' in "The Omega Glory" and Lt. Mira Romaine's in "The Lights of Zetar."
     
  2. Pindar

    Pindar Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: Just saw "The Cage" on TOSR- Help me out here...the Keeper's voice

    I must go back and rewatch, again.

    I don't remember the hand bandage appearing until after they direct the ships power against the elevator in the hill.
     
  3. GSchnitzer

    GSchnitzer Co-Executive Producer Moderator

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    Re: Just saw "The Cage" on TOSR- Help me out here...the Keeper's voice

    You can see Jose Tyler's bandaged hand starting with the very first shot he appears in on the bridge. But here's a shot as the landing party is beaming down for the first time (certainly well before the laser cannon is used on the rocky knoll). You can see Tyler (way over at screen left) has his right hand wrapped with a flesh-colored ACE bandage, and the Geologist way over at screen right has a white bandage on the left side of his neck.

    [​IMG]
     
  4. Pindar

    Pindar Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: Just saw "The Cage" on TOSR- Help me out here...the Keeper's voice

     
  5. number6

    number6 Vice Admiral

    Re: Just saw "The Cage" on TOSR- Help me out here...the Keeper's voice

    Cool. I figured if it was some kind of black box, it would be some kind of clumsy thing.

    I stand corrected. Thanks for the clarification.
     
  6. Praetor

    Praetor Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Just saw "The Cage" on TOSR- Help me out here...the Keeper's voice

    I really wonder what that machine was.
     
  7. gastrof

    gastrof Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: Just saw "The Cage" on TOSR- Help me out here...the Keeper's voice

    There was no such machine. Desilu hired real aliens. It was cheaper than renting the device.
     
  8. number6

    number6 Vice Admiral

    Re: Just saw "The Cage" on TOSR- Help me out here...the Keeper's voice


    Desi Arnaz was the voice of the Keeper.
     
  9. alchemist

    alchemist Commander Red Shirt

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    Re: Just saw "The Cage" on TOSR- Help me out here...the Keeper's voice

    It was likely a tempophon (or similar device manufactured by a different company):
    http://matrixsynth.blogspot.com/2007/02/springer-tempophon.html

    For details on how it works, see this link:
    http://books.google.com/books?id=KMlbYGCPDBEC&pg=PA212&dq=film+sound+tempophon

    This link is also good, but there is a misspelling in the name:
    http://www.sfu.ca/sonic-studio/handbook/Tempophone.html
     
  10. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Re: Just saw "The Cage" on TOSR- Help me out here...the Keeper's voice

    Cloud William? No, his voice doesn't sound artificially deepened; he's just a natural bass. Heck, Ted Cassidy had a deeper voice than that.

    The other major example of pitch changing in TOS would be Professor Crater in "The Man Trap," whose dialogue was slowed or pitched down for a few moments after he was phaser-stunned.
     
  11. number6

    number6 Vice Admiral

    Re: Just saw "The Cage" on TOSR- Help me out here...the Keeper's voice

    That is pretty cool. I want one!!
     
  12. Praetor

    Praetor Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Just saw "The Cage" on TOSR- Help me out here...the Keeper's voice

    Me too! Thanks for posting that, alchemist. :)
     
  13. GSchnitzer

    GSchnitzer Co-Executive Producer Moderator

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    Re: Just saw "The Cage" on TOSR- Help me out here...the Keeper's voice

    In "The Omega Glory," in scene 155, Cloud William says "The fight is done when one is dead." This same scene appears in the "scenes from next week" trailer. But when this dialog is heard in the scenes from next week, the dialog is noticably higher in pitch than in the actual episode. We notice a pitch change on Professor Crater, of course, because we have two different pitches to compare. We don't really notice it on Cloud WIlliam/Roy Jenson, because we don't have two different pitches to compare--except that, thanks to the preview trailer, we actually do. I think Roy Jenson's dialog was deepened throughout the entire episode--but not in the preview trailer.
     
  14. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Re: Just saw "The Cage" on TOSR- Help me out here...the Keeper's voice

    ^What I mean is, I know what an artificially pitch-changed voice sounds like, the changes in echo duration and attack and decay and such that have been discussed above, and I've never noticed any such artificial-sounding qualities in Cloud William's voice. As far as I can recall, it sounds like a normal voice that happens to be deep.

    Is it possible that the preview trailer simply used a different take where Jenson was using a higher voice for some reason? Are you sure the line has the same cadence and delivery?
     
  15. GSchnitzer

    GSchnitzer Co-Executive Producer Moderator

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    Re: Just saw "The Cage" on TOSR- Help me out here...the Keeper's voice

    I'm reasonably certain that I've ruled out all other possible explantions (e.g. a different take) for vocal pitch differences between the "scenes from next week" trailer and the actual episode--other than some intentional post-production pitch manipulation. But I welcome other sets of eyes on the preview trailer to see if it really is the same take, simply unmanipulated.
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2009
  16. Captain Robert April

    Captain Robert April Vice Admiral Admiral

    Re: Just saw "The Cage" on TOSR- Help me out here...the Keeper's voice

    Short answer: April was right.

    Just repeat that a few times, get used to the sound of it... :D
     
  17. number6

    number6 Vice Admiral

    Re: Just saw "The Cage" on TOSR- Help me out here...the Keeper's voice

    Nope. You said they ran it through a synth and a fender amp.

    This device is neither. It is a tape based pitch manipulator.

    You lose.....again.
     
  18. jefferiestubes8

    jefferiestubes8 Commodore Premium Member

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    Re: Just saw "The Cage" on TOSR- Help me out here...the Keeper's voice

    [LEFT]
    [/LEFT]
    There is a photo of the Mark II Eltro Information Rate Changer hardware unit at the link below [thanks Capt.Mac].
    http://www.startrekhistory.com/cagepage.html
    and here is another very famous example of this analog audio processing tool used on a voice:
    http://www.wendycarlos.com/other/Eltro-1967/index.html


    answers below:
    more tech info [PDF file] on the hardware unit:
    http://www.wendycarlos.com/other/Eltro-1967/Eltro-1967.pdf
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2010
  19. RobertScorpio

    RobertScorpio Pariah

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    Re: Just saw "The Cage" on TOSR- Help me out here...the Keeper's voice

    I think, after reading this thread, they had all of them all along. They just suckered all of you into buying all of them over the years and took that $$$ and bought themselves cool new gadgets and things..

    Rob
     
  20. Ssosmcin

    Ssosmcin Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: Just saw "The Cage" on TOSR- Help me out here...the Keeper's voice

    This was a pretty interesting thread. Thanks, guys, for all the info - and for debating it politely!

    Speaking of voice pitch, what was up with Reger's voice in some scenes in "Return of the Archons"? It's way too high in the scene where 's escorting the landing party out of his rooming house and to a safe place. "They're in the body, it's Landru" and so on. Was that a bad dub or a different vocal actor altogether?