Just finished KotOR for the first time...

Discussion in 'Gaming' started by Reverend, May 10, 2012.

  1. Reverend

    Reverend Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    There's a lot about this game that feel nonsensical. G0-T0 probably take the cake though. Maybe I missed something, or the RC mod glitched out some dialogue, but I had to look him up to figure out what he was about. I mean, you blow up the exchange ship and this floating ball shows up on the Ebon Hawk and invites itself into your group. For some reason I thought he was being remotely operated by whoever but that bounty out on you, but apparantly the droid itself was running the Exchange. I totally missed that in-game.

    But yeah, that whole bit about being a "wound in the force" and leaching off everyone else didn't make any sense to me at all. It always seemed to me that Kreia was the one leaching off of the PC from the get go. I mean it was hardly shocking when she turned up and fried all the masters.

    Actually, I'd say the main problem with the plot isn't the lack of clarity so much as the lack of purpose. I mean it's never really clear what's going, but it's even less clear *why* you have to go on this quest. There's no clear goal or even a clear antagonist to drive the plot, just a vague mystery about the PC's past, two Sith villains who don't do very much and Kreia who, right from her first appearance was clearly a darkside user.

    ..still, I'd like to see how it plays out.
     
  2. Itisnotlogical

    Itisnotlogical Commodore Commodore

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    I was very interested in the quest- I loved how everything was vague and mystic, but I was a little disappointed to learn that nothing was ever actually clarified. :(
     
  3. JRoss

    JRoss Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I'll bet that you'll hate the second one, OP, if the first one didn't grab you. Tedium factor increases by about 4 in the sequel.
     
  4. firehawk12

    firehawk12 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Story-wise, it's very much a middle chapter to a trilogy that will never get finished.

    I do find the story more interesting than the standard "good" vs "evil" thing though, even if the only conclusion we get for it is a lame book that no one is going to read.
     
  5. Itisnotlogical

    Itisnotlogical Commodore Commodore

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    Star Wars in general has a very clearly-defined good vs. evil division that makes it very hard for me to stay interested in the franchise anymore. KOTOR 2 was amazing because it brought some ambiguity in to the equation, in that good intentions != good results. Sadly, it looks like KOTOR2 will continue to be the exception to the rule for a long time, maybe to the end of the franchise's lifespan.
     
  6. Hound of UIster

    Hound of UIster Vice Admiral Admiral

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    It actually made more sense to me once Chris Avellone said that
    Darth Nihilus was the darker and missing piece of the Exile that had emerged from Malachor V
     
  7. Reverend

    Reverend Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Don't know if anyone noticed but KOTOR2 has finally been released on Steam! As a bonus, it looks like the restored content mod got a huge update just this last month and as a double bonus, someone has made a "Handmaiden for female exile" mod that's actually compatible with restored content. I feel a new game coming on...
     
  8. PsychoPere

    PsychoPere Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Yeah, I saw the Steam news from none other than Chris Avellone on Twitter.

    As for the TSLRCM, that's not only a "huge" update - but their last planned update in general. One of the fan developers was interviewed by PC Gamer.

    Work on the droid planet M4-78EP still continues, but since very little of that work constitutes restoration (this is addressed in the interview) it's being done separately from TSLRCM.
     
  9. Reverend

    Reverend Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    OK, looks like the 1.8 update fixed that game breaking bug that stopped me from progressing, so I've now been able to complete KOTOR 2...I can see why people were disappointed, especially if the version I saw was in some way improved by TSLRCM. I mean it wasn't *awful* but it was certainly anticlimactic.
     
  10. Dream

    Dream Admiral Admiral

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    The way I see it, the first KOTOR had the much better storyline.

    But the sequel had the better gameplay.

    I'm a story over gameplay RPG kind of guy. I tend to drop a game pretty fast if I don't care what is happening in it, so I liked the first KOTOR more.
     
  11. Reverend

    Reverend Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    ^I'm not so sure about that. I mean the Revan twist was clever (even though I had been spoiled on it long ago) but other than that it was a fairly standard fantasy quest type story. KOTOR II on the other hand looked like a deliberate deconstruction of the standard Star Wars good vs. evil tropes. It's just a shame the game was so rushed and that they never got to finish the story with the obviously intended third game.

    But yes, the gameplay in KOTOR 2 was much improved.
     
  12. Skywalker

    Skywalker Admiral Admiral

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    The first game was a better Star Wars story, IMO. I liked the second game, but I didn't like its ambiguous, shades-of-gray nature. Star Wars is supposed to be a black-and-white, good vs. evil world.
     
  13. Reverend

    Reverend Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    ^But that's rather the point. The game (or rather Kreia) asks is black-and-white morality a tenable world view? Can any decision be that simple? They even exemplify this almost as soon as you land on Nar Shaddaa: after seeing you help out some homeless guy, a beggar approaches you and asks for a meagre hand out. If you refuse him, he may go hungry, but if you do the compassionate thing, some other street dweller sees what you give him and as soon as he rounds the corner the bloke you helped is soon beaten up and mugged.

    It also looks at the role of Jedi and Sith. Where the Sith are perpetually locked in a cycle of betrayal and self destruction, the Jedi are committed to coddling weakness, in those they profane to protect and even in themselves by relying so totally on the force.
     
  14. Skywalker

    Skywalker Admiral Admiral

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    I know what the game was trying to say, I just don't like it. :p
     
  15. Reverend

    Reverend Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    ^Fair enough. I just happened to find it more interesting. I mean since when does any other Star Wars story require you to actually think? To me, it was refreshing.
     
  16. CaptainStoner

    CaptainStoner Knuckle-dragging TNZ Denizen Admiral

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    I see the thread is nearly dead, but felt like commenting.
    KotOR uses Dungeons and Dragons as its underlying combat mechanic, which is by definition an abstraction of a full round of fighting. So marrying that - a pen/paper RPG system published in 1974 - to an almost-modern 3d computer game is what results in that dissonance.
    In the Baldur's Gate games - computerized D&D - it made more sense, those not being 3D and not really representing individual blows as much.
    I too found KotOR quite grinding in places, though not to the extent you did. KotOR 2 is a more nuanced story, though generally regarded as inferior to the first.
    And actually, the dialog aspects of Bioware games are one of the more critcized, not so much lauded, aspects, the main criticism being given 5 or 6 choices with 1 or 2 different outcomes. I still enjoy the selections and "roleplaying" the character(s), but often any selection results in combat.
    Lastly, Baldur's Gate, and especially BG2, are in my opinion vastly better than KotOR 1 or 2.
     
  17. 6079SmithW

    6079SmithW Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I agree that KOTOR 2 examining the middle ground of the Star Wars Light side/Dark side conflict was an intriguing plot and refreshing as well. I actually like this plot better than KOTOR's due to its ambiguous nature. Kreia is a great foil in my opinion. She challenges both your light and dark moral decisions.

    Although it technically isn't canon I think KOTOR 2, as well as KOTOR to an extent, are a good explanation as to why the Jedi are seemingly so stupid in the prequels. They have a narrow view of the Force and morality, which even Palpatine hints at. Of course Palpatine then goes on to prove Kreia's point by losing everything he's built by being overly arrogant.
     
  18. Saturn0660

    Saturn0660 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Its funny that this thread is back up top. We were talking at work about how great game that let you go ""good" and "bad"" are. most of my friends say i'd do things so evil that even the Emperor himself would raise an eyebrow. :devil:
     
  19. Reverend

    Reverend Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I don't think it was the graphics being 2D or 3D so much as it was where the "camera" was placed. In games like Baldur's Gate & Fallout the isometric view gives one a more detached feel that is well suited to the more strategic turn-based gameplay. In KotOR the over-the-head 3rd person perspective is meant to make the player identify more with their avatar and make them feel like they're in the midst of the action. So when shot at someone not more than three paces away, it rubs against the grain.

    In case you didn't read the rest of the thread; I have actually since played KotOR 2 and have to say that while I certainly enjoyed it more, it is inferior to KotOR...on a technicality. That being of course that KotOR 2 was so blatantly unfinished (even with the RC mod.) Had the game not been so quickly rushed out the door it could have easily have surpassed the original on all fronts. A genuine shame.

    One of these days I really ought to try out BG2. It's so often cited as the standard to which most modern RPGs are held. The trouble is, I've had a look at a few LPs on youtube and I'm not sure I'll be able to enjoy the combat system...
     
  20. CorporalClegg

    CorporalClegg Admiral Admiral

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    How is it not canon?

    SWEU =/= Star Trek lit.