Joss Whedon's S.H.I.E.L.D to ABC!

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by Admiral_Young, Aug 29, 2012.

  1. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Admiral Admiral

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    I think there's a possibility that he might get better.
     
  2. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    ^Wow, really? A comics/SF character returning from the dead? Why, that's never happened before in the history of the world! :D

    Heck, I was surprised they didn't reveal in the post-credits scene that Coulson's death was faked. After all, we didn't actually see him declared dead, just heard Fury say it had happened. It would be incredibly easy to reveal he was still alive.
     
  3. Satyrquaze

    Satyrquaze Vice Admiral Admiral

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    You make a good point.
     
  4. Silvercrest

    Silvercrest Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I was hoping you'd chime in on this one!
     
  5. Admiral_Young

    Admiral_Young Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    "Daredevil" will be reverting back to Marvel in October. That's pretty much established. Joe Carnahan's pitch was Fox's last ditch effort to find someone.

    I'm sure CorporalCaptain is referring to the popular fan theory that Coulson will be resurrected as the Vision rumours that have surfaced since the "Avengers", unless there are new rumours that I'm not aware of regarding how Coulson could return. Revealing that Coulson is alive would defeat the purpose of his death being the catalyst for uniting the team. Joss would not have done that. Coulson's death kind of reminded me of Wash's from "Serenity".
     
  6. davejames

    davejames Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Agreed. That was too big a moment in the movie's story to just be undone with a snap of the fingers.

    And the last thing I really want to see is him brought back as a superhero. I want him to be the same deadpan SHIELD agent we saw before.
     
  7. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Admiral Admiral

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    The Vision theory, what Christopher said about the comic/SF staple, but also—let's face it—Coulson seems pretty popular. There's nothing like brining back popular characters to really create a swell of enthusiasm.

    I'm puzzled with your assessment that "Joss would not have done that." He and Penn already had Fury lie about the card to bring the team together; what's one more lie? The whole point of that scene of the reveal of the lie is actually undermined if you just assume that Fury's telling the truth.
     
  8. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Yep, that's probably the case, but I don't like to say things are certain until they actually happen, or get definitively announced as being about to happen. The thing about high-probability events is that there's still a small but nonzero probability that something else could happen instead.

    I don't know about CC, but I'm not talking about any rumors. I'm talking about what I was thinking when I actually saw the film for the first time. I was thinking:

    a) We didn't actually see the moment of his death, just heard about it, and that's a classic get-out-of-death loophole going all the way back to Sherlock Holmes.

    b) Fury faked the blood on the trading cards, so we know he was willing to use deceit to motivate the heroes by giving them something to avenge (as Coulson was trying to say in his last line).

    c) The whole sequence of events seemed tailor-made to conform to what audiences have come to expect from Whedon (i.e. that he kills our darlings), and I figured that Whedon wouldn't want to be so predictable. So I was thinking that maybe he was deliberately playing with our expectations, making us think he'd killed Coulson and then subverting our expectations by having it turn out to be a trick.

    (Although I now know differently; see below.)


    Well, first off, the team's united now, and I don't think they'd abandon that unity if they learned Phil was still alive. Sure, they'd be mad at Fury for manipulating them, but that's nothing new. Second, as I said above, we know for a fact that Fury did trick them to some extent, so it would really be a difference of degree.

    And third, it actually wasn't Whedon's idea to kill Coulson. That decision was made before he was even brought aboard. So while it looks just like the sort of thing we'd expect of him, it didn't come from him.


    But I agree, it would be problematical to bring him back in a separate work. That does kind of seem like cheating. I'd be willing to forgive it if we got more Coulson out of it, though. And yeah, I'd want him to be Coulson, not the Vision.

    But Whedon has said this project would be "autonomous" from the movies, so it probably won't feature any of the films' characters.
     
  9. Admiral_Young

    Admiral_Young Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Both Corporal Captain and Christopher make excellent points regarding how Fury used Coulson's death to unite the team. Perhaps I phrased my statement incorrectly. With my comments in regard to Coulson's death and Joss, I only meant that it isn't like Joss to "take back" or "undo" important character deaths, especially with characters that are his favourite to write, like Phil was, and popular characters. Wash in "Serenity", Tara in "Buffy the Vampire Slayer", Kitty Pryde in "Astonishing X-Men" (although she wasn't killed, just space missiled!) , Penny in "Dr. Horrible". etc. Coulson is just the latest :)
     
  10. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    ^On the other hand, killing Coulson wasn't Whedon's idea, but Marvel's. And like I said, maybe he's getting tired of being predictable and might want to break with tradition. Or, since killing Coulson was Marvel's idea, maybe resurrecting him could be their idea too (it would hardly be unprecedented for Marvel).
     
  11. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Admiral Admiral

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    I'm just soooo pining for the Vision ("done right"). He's always been one of my very fav's. Don't care if it's in A2 or SHIELD, just do him ("right")!
     
  12. Admiral_Young

    Admiral_Young Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I'd like to see Vision as well (not Vin Diesel) but he's become one of my favourite characters lately. I think this is one of the reasons why the Marvel Cinematic Universe has become so successful, even without Spidey, X-Men, and the FF, Marvel Studios still has the rights to so many popular and fan favourite characters that the possibilities are just endless.
     
  13. Dream

    Dream Admiral Admiral

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    If they put in the Vision, don't they need to put in Scarlet Witch too? :)
     
  14. Admiral_Young

    Admiral_Young Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    They need Hank Pym first of all and Hank's on his way :)
     
  15. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    I think there's some uncertainty about whether they have the rights to Wanda and Pietro, because they're the children of Magneto, whose movie rights are owned by Fox. I think I read something suggesting that maybe Marvel could use the characters if they didn't allude to their mutant nature or parentage, and Fox could use the characters as mutants if they didn't allude to their Avengers connections. Although that may have been just the article writer's best guess.
     
  16. Dream

    Dream Admiral Admiral

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    Kevin Feige has already confirmed that both Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver can be used in the Avengers or in the X-men movies. Disney and Fox have shared rights on those characters.
     
  17. DWF

    DWF Admiral Admiral

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    Why? As far I remember they aren't a couple anymore.
     
  18. Admiral_Young

    Admiral_Young Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    They're not and haven't been in several years (real life and comic book time :) ) Like I said, we pretty much need Hank around first before we start even thinking about Vision.
     
  19. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Ah, that must be what I was trying to remember. Thanks.
     
  20. Temis the Vorta

    Temis the Vorta Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Corporate custody fight! :D Who gets the kids? Would be funny if Disney and Fox came up with their own iterations of the characters..

    Much as I like the Coulson-becomes-The Vision idea, I doubt they'll go heavy duty with the colorful costumed superheroes. It will probably be more like 24, with the knowledge that superheroes exist offscreen and a few onscreen appearances.