Joss Whedon's S.H.I.E.L.D to ABC!

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by Admiral_Young, Aug 29, 2012.

  1. Fist McStrongpunch

    Fist McStrongpunch Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I'd prefer the Raimi stuff over ASM though, simply because of how crazy well the Green Goblin's origin fits in just before Iron Man 2, what with the corporations competing to create robot suits, and the off-brand super-soldier serum tying in well to Cap and Abomination.
     
  2. The Old Mixer

    The Old Mixer Vice Admiral Admiral

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    ^^I'm fine with Spidey remaining separate, too. He doesn't add anything to the Avengers setting and vice versa. Spidey/DD would be nice, but does anyone have any plans for DD?

    Spidey/FF would be nice, too...classically, they've had more of a history than Spidey and the Avengers...but I won't lose sleep over it not happening.
     
  3. Out Of My Vulcan Mind

    Out Of My Vulcan Mind Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Fox's option on the DD rights ended and they reverted to Marvel. Nothing has been announced yet, but I'm sure Marvel will do something new with DD in the next few years.
     
  4. Alidar Jarok

    Alidar Jarok Everything in moderation but moderation Moderator

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    Yeah, there's no problem inherent with Spiderman and the Avengers existing (aside from Spiderman's great responsibility would probably diminish if there were lots of others available to do the same job). I tend to go with three camps: more "down to earth" heroes like Spiderman and Daredevil, more "larger than life" heroes in the Avengers, and the X-Men. Fantastic Four would probably be in the middle category too (what with fighting planet-eating aliens and all that), although I don't like two competing teams wondering around. At least keeping the Fantastic Four away from Spiderman and Daredevil will help prevent New York City from having too many superheroes, though.

    I enjoyed the Spiderman crossover with the X-Men in the 90s cartoon. It worked for the episode, but it didn't work if you start to think about how common mutants are in the mutant universe. Christopher more or less explained why. It only works if he entered a bubble where the people he met only existed so Spiderman could meet them.
     
  5. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    ^Or if it's a slightly alternate universe where anti-mutant hysteria isn't so widespread. (Although the crossovers went both ways; there was a late X-Men episode wherein a news van had the J3 Communications logo from Spider-Man.)

    Then again, maybe it's just that Spidey mostly operates in New York City proper, which is a very cosmopolitan city and might be more tolerant of mutants, whereas X-Men episodes were often set in other parts of the world. Although they did do a lot that was apparently set in Manhattan or thereabouts, so that doesn't entirely work.

    As for Wolverine&tXM/Avengers:EMH, there's apparently some time that passes between them, so maybe there were intervening events that eased anti-mutant tensions; maybe the X-Men preventing the rise of Apocalypse (as seen in the cliffhanger ending of the first and only season) led to improved public opinion of mutants. Although I'm led to wonder where the rest of the X-Men were in the later EMH episodes that Wolverine appeared in. It seems odd that none of them participated in the series finale when just about every other major hero was involved.
     
  6. Kestrel

    Kestrel Vice Admiral Admiral

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    True, but on the other hand I think Whedon did a great job with bringing in some other Marvel characters during his X-Men run, so I think his team could make it work in reverse for something like SHIELD. Different and a newer thing than in the X-films obviously, but still there. Or of course there's always the "metahuman" lingo.

    It didn't get really good until the Sentinel attack I agree, but I'd say it got a lot more interesting right in the second season when they started de-emphasizing the Brotherhood as a threat. And the Christmas episode with Angel is still one of the best, I think.
     
  7. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    ^True, the second season was an improvement over the languidly-paced first, but I still found XME overall to be the weakest of the three X-Men shows in its writing -- which is a shame, since it was by far the best-animated of the three, and one of the most gorgeously animated TV series I've ever seen.
     
  8. Set Harth

    Set Harth Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Well, no mention of Hydra in The Wolverine. Not that that was hard to predict or anything, but I had wondered if it was going to be one of those elements that could be referenced by either franchise.
     
  9. Turtletrekker

    Turtletrekker Vice Admiral Admiral

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  10. Alidar Jarok

    Alidar Jarok Everything in moderation but moderation Moderator

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    Well, I certainly think it's possible to add X-Men characters to an Avengers (or other Marvel) movie. I just don't think you can add the entire X-Men universe to it and I think adding other Marvel characters to the X-Men universe would weaken that universe. Whedon is adding two X-Men characters to this movie without a problem and he would likely do the same were he to add Wolverine or some other character like that. But it certainly wouldn't be beneficial to add a whole subplot about mutant rights and discrimination to an Avengers movie. In that sense, Mark Webb is correct.
     
  11. Kestrel

    Kestrel Vice Admiral Admiral

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    For the films, I definitely agree. But as a subplot in a long-running TV series? I could see that be something running through SHIELD, with our main characters maybe taking different stances.

    Absolutely agreed about the animation. I think overall I like the character selection better too - Kitty and Kurt especially, plus Cable has always bored me - and maybe characterization (with allowance that they're at radically different stages for most of them). Certainly I've come to prefer the Evo take on Rogue; super-flying-brick Rogue from TAS is a lot of fun (though too many "Sugahs") and it's nice to have a female character as the physical heavy-hitter, but Evo's Rogue was just more interesting. The fact that it was a pretty clean-slate sort of adaptation worked in its favor too; I don't know it ever got as strong as the (relatively) straight adaptation of The Phoenix Saga, but it felt a lot more straightforward too. Though I really need to rewatch X-Men:TAS one of these days because while it was one of the pillars of my childhood with Batman and Spider-Man, it's been a very long time.

    I have nothing but disinterest towards WatXM just from the title; watched an episode or two late-night once, but overall blurgh. Wolverine in TAS - fun character, vital but didn't take over the show. Wolverine in Evo - nice that he wasn't the focus, but again a very important part. WatXM? Ugh....
     
  12. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    ^I found WatXM to be better than I remembered, though it was sometimes more a Wolverine series than an X-Men series (while maintaining a pretty good balance of both overall). Also, I'd say Steve Blum is the second-best of the three Wolverine portrayers (I think Scott McNeill is a very good voice actor, but his Wolverine on XME was a little too mellow and relaxed, which is surprising since I know he's capable of playing really fierce and angry characters like Dinobot on Transformers: Beast Wars), though the original series's Cathal J. Dodd will always be the definitive Wolverine for me.

    I think WatXM had the best Nightcrawler and a better Kitty than XME (perhaps less distinctive, but less annoying too). But it had the weakest Xavier actor.
     
  13. Kestrel

    Kestrel Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Well, I think Evo's Wolverine was mean to be more mellow and relaxed - the older gruff warrior, but mostly over (or never having?) the rage which is normally associated with him; I think McNeill went the way they wanted him too, just as Dinobot was meant to be truly ferocious and angry. Steve Blum plays a great angry berserker type though I agree - his Grunt from the Mass Effect series is a real treat. Agreed about Cathal Dodd - definitive.

    Evo's Kitty started out somewhat annoying, but when they toned down the valley girl stereotypes she became a lot better I felt like. ;)
     
  14. JD

    JD Admiral Admiral

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    As for the debate about adding characters owned by other studios to the MCU, I do agree the mutants could problem, but I really don't see where Spider-Man would be a problem at all. As far as I know, there really isn't anything in his story that couldn't be squeezed into the MCU.
     
  15. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    ^All the characters are owned by Marvel. Other studios just hold licenses to make movies about them. That's more like leasing than owning.

    As I've said, I'd like to see Sony and Marvel Studios find a way to at least loosely integrate the Garfield Spidey films with the MCU. It's a new enough continuity that it would be easy enough to keep them compatible. I do think the X-Men films and the whole mutant continuity work better as a separate entity, but I agree, Spidey would fit in just fine. I doubt we'll ever see Andrew Garfield teaming up with Downey, Hemsworth, and Evans in an Avengers movie, but there could be some subtle cross-references and an effort to keep the series broadly compatible. Say, have a lot of construction going on in the background of ASM2 because Manhattan's being rebuilt from the Battle of New York.

    Of course, that wouldn't necessarily benefit Agents of SHIELD, since they probably wouldn't get to feature any Spidey characters or continuity that hadn't already been introduced in the movies, so as not to restrict the moviemakers' options. And with Spidey movies coming out so infrequently by comparison, there wouldn't be many opportunities to do any kind of tie-in. Heck, that's the whole reason to do a series about a new cast that stands largely apart from the movies -- it's just better from a logistical standpoint if a TV series isn't too closely tied to an ongoing, much more slowly developing film series. So any Avengerverse/Spidey crossover elements would be far more likely to show up on the big screen than on TV.
     
  16. Kestrel

    Kestrel Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I think the main character I want to see show up in SHIELD is Daredevil and his supporting cast.
     
  17. JD

    JD Admiral Admiral

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    He would be pretty easy to do on a TV budget too, wouldn't he? From what I've seen it looks like you'd pretty much just need a martial artist who can do parkour, and some effects for his echolocation ability.
     
  18. The Old Mixer

    The Old Mixer Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Having...Trial...of the...Incredible...Hulk...flashbacks....
     
  19. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    ^I felt that Trial of the Incredible Hulk was a pretty good Daredevil pilot for its day. Purists would've complained about the simpler black costume (but then, religious nuts would've complained about a more accurate one), but I would've liked to see it continue to series.

    But these days we'd definitely expect better FX for his radar-sense shots. I've read some of the recent comics run and they're doing some impressive visuals for that.

    Who are DD's main antagonists? Kingpin, Bullseye... who else? They seem pretty FX-light characters.
     
  20. Dream

    Dream Admiral Admiral

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    Kingpin's rights are owned by SONY right now since he is considered a Spider-Man villain. Not exactly sure how THAT works.
     

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