John Harrison was more interesting than (SPOILER)

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies XI+' started by The Wormhole, Jun 3, 2013.

  1. gabby_j

    gabby_j Ensign Newbie

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    Yeah the Old Spock thing was weird. I actually laughed. I also agree that it would have worked without Khan, and that him being Khan didn't have any effect on the box office.
     
  2. -Brett-

    -Brett- Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I had the same thought leaving the theater. For all the fuss over Khan, the movie would have been better without him.
     
  3. Ain Jalut

    Ain Jalut Lieutenant

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    He was dropped out of the sky as far as the narrative was concerned.
     
  4. StarMan

    StarMan Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I knew Harrison's reveal was coming. Unfortunately, when it arrived in all it's painstakingly enunciated glory, it fell flat on it's face. There may as well have been a subtle tilt of the head and shift of the eyes towards the camera - hell, throw a sly wink in there and blast through the forth wall altogether. :lol:

    It was about then it started to sink in I wasn't enjoying this film.
     
  5. JarodRussell

    JarodRussell Vice Admiral Admiral

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    It's kinda irritating how much some people think they need a name attached to be entertained. It's just a NAME, especially how it plays out in the final film. And especially since this film was ADVERTISED with the villain being JOHN HARRISON. Khan was a surprise reveal, remember?

    It really doesn't matter in this film that it is Khan Noonien Singh. Genetically enhanced badass Starfleet agent John Harrison would have done exactly the same in the very same film.

    In Space Seed, Khan was just a "villain of the week". How boring.
    In TWOK, Khan was essential, since there was that backstory with Kirk that simply could not have existed without Khan being the villain. No random new villain could replace Khan's role in that film.



    It's funny how he reveals himself. "My name is... Khan." and everybody looks quite concerned. Like the characters watched Space Seed and TWOK and already knew who Khan Noonien Singh was. But they didn't. Only the audience did.
     
  6. Set Harth

    Set Harth Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I had wished for that.
     
  7. -Brett-

    -Brett- Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    It's lucky for us that the writers back in the day didn't have today's attitude toward new characters. Otherwise we'd still be rehashing the Talosians over and over again.
     
  8. Morpheus 02

    Morpheus 02 Commodore Commodore

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    I was going to do a separate post to suggest just that.

    Maybe Khan had the name switched so an enemy would kill the wrong person, or Harrison claimed to be Khan, so he could be more respected/valued, and made up some lie about it waking up.

    Or perhaps son of Khan Noonian Singh?


    Keith Hamilton Cobb
    of Andromeda fame would have been an excellent Khan
     
  9. BillJ

    BillJ Admiral Admiral

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    Why?

    He wasn't a very good actor and hasn't worked in front of the camera since 2007.

    I think if they truly wanted to do an "Indian" Khan they should've found a Bollywood actor to play the character.
     
  10. Spock/Uhura Fan

    Spock/Uhura Fan Captain Captain

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    Good question, as questions are great for sparking discussion and obtaining access to varying views! That said, I was also more interested in John Harrison than Khan. After all, that was the character they built up the most out of the 2. Seeing some of his section 31 story could have been interesting, but alas...
     
  11. Worf2DS9

    Worf2DS9 Writer Rear Admiral

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    I'm also of the mind that the Khan revelation was a disappointment. I thought Cumberbatch was great as the villain, but I just did not like that he ended up being Khan, and not just because he's not the first face that springs to mind when you think of someone called Khan Noonien Singh. As others have mentioned, he didn't need to be Khan in the movie. This actually soured my opinion of the character. If they had to do a TOS villain redux, then I would have preferred Gary Mitchell, who was doing the rumour rounds along with Khan in the months prior to release. That could have been an interesting story; Kirk having to deal with his chum causing all this mayhem. In the end, John Harrison should have been left as John Harrison.
     
  12. Phily B

    Phily B Commodore Commodore

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    I liked the twist, but I think the movie could've stood on its own without it.
     
  13. Set Harth

    Set Harth Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I could see a third film where a bunch of galactic barrier mutants ( not Mitchell this time, different characters ) go to war against the Klingons and the Federation.
     
  14. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Admiral Admiral

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    If they had to make him a TOS character, I'd have gone with one of the renegade captains. Hell, I can easily see things working perfectly if they had made him Captain Garth. Particularly if they played up his celebrity status and made the crew uneasy about going up against someone they all revere.

    Casting might be a problem, since Cumberbatch is only four years older than Pine. Though with creative writing, the character could be in his 40s but looks young for his age and also like Kirk he jumped from cadet to captain. Hey a parallel the two of them could play off of. Shit, this could have been a pretty good movie.

    Which, strangely enough, Orci actually admitted.
     
  15. newtontomato539

    newtontomato539 Commander Red Shirt

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    John Garrison: "My name is Garth."

    Jim: "Garth of Izar!? I studied your missions at the Academy. How could you turn traitor!"

    and . . . .

    Spock: "Gaaaaaaaaaaaarth!"

    People would still have complained:

    "Why did they do a Garth retread!? :wtf: They should have used Gary Mitchell. He wouldn't have been a retread."

    I would have still:

    :wtf::eek:

    :rofl::guffaw:

    Therefore, nothing would have changed.

    Prime Trek is dead. Bad Robot Trek is alive.

    People like Bad Robot and Prime Trek.

    Long live Star Trek. :techman::drool:
     
  16. DalekJim

    DalekJim Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Him being Khan added nothing to the movie other than the chance to do those homage sequences. But seeing as we're always fucking told this movie is definitely NOT for Star Trek fans, and we're the only ones that would get these references... what was the point?

    The movie was an OK popcorn flick and I liked Cumberbatch but I kept forgetting he was Khan while watching the movie. I think they should have done a John Harrison movie, or a movie where we know he's Khan from the start. The way they went about it fell flat.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2013
  17. throwback

    throwback Captain Captain

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    Yes, I agree with those who think that John Harrison should have been John Harrison.

     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2013
  18. sj4iy

    sj4iy Commander Red Shirt

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    I liked the "twist"...it gave him a background the audience could automatically relate to and played on his previous story. I wouldn't change it at all.
     
  19. newtontomato539

    newtontomato539 Commander Red Shirt

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    Shhhhh. Common sense doesn't belong here. :techman:

    pat on the back. standing ovation.

    First the complaint is, "They don't care about us old school fans!"

    Now the complaint is, "They do care about us old school fans! Those jerks! We hate them!"
     
  20. bullethead

    bullethead Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I totally agree that John Harrison should've been John Harrison, Starfleet Augment... but that change pretty much requires rewriting the whole movie, which wouldn't be a bad thing. Instead of a TWOK retread, they could've played up the Section 31 angle and explored the hypocrisy of the Federation (they hide behind the Prime Directive while millions/billions die, but they condemn people doing shady things for a good cause). Heck, if they had to rehash a TOS story, why not do TUC in reverse? Have the Starfleet/Klingon conspiracy be about bringing peace, not stopping it.
     

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