Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

Discussion in 'Voyager' started by Godless Raven, Apr 11, 2013.

  1. hyzmarca

    hyzmarca Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    They should have just created a transporter clone of Tuvix and split the clone. Then everyone would be alive and happy.
     
  2. DonIago

    DonIago Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    ^ I proposed that way back on page 1 or so. :p
     
  3. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    So.... how about another Equinox thread? ;)
     
  4. Dale Sams

    Dale Sams Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    *More* Godwin, eh?

    You all do realize you are presenting valid arguments (I've said as much) that don't require false equivalencies.

    Dale as Captain: "Christ, someone get me a Vulcan priest and Chakotay to advise me on what to do here."

    As for the question of whether SF has the right to 'cure' Tuvix after 50 years...it's a tough question. If Neelix and Tuvok were stuck in a transporter buffer and sending Tuvix through would be the only way to retrieve them do you?

    What if another Vulcan determined that Tuvix was lying and that Tuvok and Neelix are conscious and aware in Tuvix (Ala Being John Malkovitch) but Tuvix is suppressing them? Does Tuvix still have the right to live at their expense?

    I'm jus askin and discussing.
     
  5. Ryva Brall

    Ryva Brall Commander Red Shirt

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    Wow, every time I come back, there's at least two new pages of posts - and new analogies. I think the only thing we can all agree on is that we're never going to agree!

    Oh, yes, do let's. :lol:
     
  6. Dale Sams

    Dale Sams Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    We should. What's the crux? That John Savage was wrong? I thought that was fairly established.
     
  7. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    And that's what makes this such a powerful episode. There is no right answer.

    Me, I'm sticking with the view that the very fact that Tuvok and Neelix were able to be separated at all, proves that they were never dead. Death is, by definition, permanent. All instances where a character is supposedly brought back from the dead - I don't view that as true death. So that colors my thinking here.
     
  8. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Janeway torturing that blueshirt for information is the crux. :p
     
  9. Dale Sams

    Dale Sams Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Hmmm. I take it the Spock mind-rape scene in ST: VI comes up in those threads?
     
  10. So, did Captain Picard try to commit murder when he was attempting to talk Dr. Graves out of inhabiting Data's body in "The Schizoid Man"?
     
  11. Dale Sams

    Dale Sams Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Back to OP, let me ask this since someone brought up the notion that Tuvix is a result of reproduction involving the alien plant....how is this any different than returning Geordi to normal in that one ep? Or returning Archer and Hoshi to normal in that other episode?
     
  12. Dale Sams

    Dale Sams Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I don't think resolving a crime is a criminal offense. Data has more right to his body than Graves, just as Neelix had more rights to his lungs than the Phage aliens.
     
  13. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The mind rape bit from ST6 has come up any number of times on the movie forum. I've never seen the Graves one come up. I can't find much of an argument for that one though, Graves took Data's body after his died. Not fair. Not to mention Picard didn't even pull the plug, he just tried to persuade Graves to do the right thing and give Data his life back that he took. Though Graves saw what he became after he slapped Picard and did so on his own.
     
  14. Pavonis

    Pavonis Commodore Commodore

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    Leaving aside the philosophical considerations of the transporters mechanics and abilities, the fact is that Tuvix did not have the mass of two men, but then, neither did Neelix or Tuvok have half the mass of Tuvix afterwards. Therefore, mass in the transporter is apparently not a strictly physical quantity but more of an informational state - the information of Tuvok and Neelix was superposed as Tuvix, and the Doctor merely separated the information of the two. I can't explain how it works, because 1) it's far more advanced than our 21st century technology, and 2) it works according to the principles of plot requirements.

    My question is, what was lost when Tuvok and Neelix were combined, and what was gained or lost when Tuvix was deconstructed into his components? If the memories of all three were retained before and after, the knowledge and skills were retained before and after, then what was gained or lost in deconstructing Tuvix?
     
  15. DonIago

    DonIago Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Might have been interesting if Graves had been forcibly removed.
     
  16. JanewayRulz!

    JanewayRulz! Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Janeway had to separate Tuvok & Neelix and therefore kill Tuvix, because she knew she'd already done it. :vulcan:

    His (Tuvok's) vision, during the fight with the Vidians, of a future TUVOK walking into a cargobay full of borg children :borg: told her it had been done, so naturally that's what she did.



    [Hated season 5's "Fury" reference... I'm too tired (long week) to read the next 9 of (currently) 12 pages to see if someone else already mentioned this idea. If so, then I defer to their right to crow. ;) ]
     
  17. teya

    teya Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Kes gets her boyfriend back and doesn't have to undergo *insert violins here* the grief that Janeway did upon losing Mark.
     
  18. teya

    teya Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Crow away! That's actually very good. :techman:
     
  19. Dale Sams

    Dale Sams Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Then Kes dumps him. Women.
     
  20. Melakon

    Melakon Admiral Admiral

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    From Memory Alpha:

     

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