Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

Discussion in 'Voyager' started by Godless Raven, Apr 11, 2013.

  1. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Totally just death.
     
  2. JarodRussell

    JarodRussell Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Essentially what Janeway did is to kill someone who doesn't want to donate organs. But she murders him in order to give his organs to two other people who need it.





    The reason she killed Tuvix was to get a tactical officer and a cook back. With Tuvix, she would have only have one individual that is a tactical officer, and in his spare time cooks.

    So, after she murdered Tuvix, what if Neelix decided to leave the next day? Would she have stopped him from doing so?
     
  3. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    She would have manipulated him into staying.
     
  4. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    She's the Anti-Christ in my religion, while we're discussing made up religions up there with Chakotay's. ;)
     
  5. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    The Janeway is my Spirit Animal is a happily popular tumblr theme..
     
  6. Melakon

    Melakon Admiral Admiral

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    A Janeway animal guide. Rrrrowwwwrrrrr.
     
  7. teya

    teya Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Well, I'm not opposed to autopsies, certainly, and I've even witnessed a number of them. Plus carving up my own cadaver in cadaver lab.

    So a medical Luddite, I am not.

    But I am still (and always will be) of the belief that Janeway killed a sentient being against his wishes in order to bring back 2 friends who were killed in a transporter accident.

    As the Doctor noted, that goes against medical ethics.

    Even today, you cannot be forced to risk your life to give up a kidney or a slice of your liver to save another person.

    And I daresay, most would *not* do so.
     
  8. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    On Greys Anatomy last week, not the best way to start a sentence, they had a 20 year old Donor Baby (all grown up) living still with the responsibility of handing out organs and suchwhat to her irresponsible thrill seeking action junkie extreme sports sister who doesn't give a damn because she's certain her cancer is going to come back no matter how much of her sister she needs for spare parts.

    It was really messed up (depressing) listening to the donor sister talking about how she doesn't have a choice, and it's what she was born for and that she "feels" that she isn't allowed to say "no" becuase she's not a real person moreso than a toolbox... I think thay went as far as saying "I only think my parents love me when I'm saving my sister."`

    What if Tuvix killed himself out of spite?

    Assuming that they couldn't wring an alive Tuvok and Neelix out of a dead Tuvix.

    (I must have had this idea before because I can feel myself reaching for the Blazing saddles quote where Cleavon little takes himself hostage, and I know I've cut and pasted that before.)

    Why kill himself when he can be in a perpetual state of almost pulling the trigger?

    A deaman's switch?
     
  9. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    That's a sad scenario you lay out there Guy. I have no doubt at all she feels objectified and a sense of obligation to get cut up whenever her sister needs it. Tuvix had that same sense of obligation and certainly everyone else objectified him. When Tuvix said no, they said screw you and cut him up anyways. If the girl said no, they'd probably be pissed as all hell but I doubt they'd drag her to the hospital, strap her to the bed and cut away. That would be a criminal act of the first order. And it doesn't even involve -killing- the girl. Heck, if the girl said kill me, take my heart for my sister... that would be illegal and a doctor would lose his license if he did that to say nothing of criminal charges.

    Tuvix committing suicide.... that would be a selfish act... but in a world where he's objectified and his life isn't of any more value than to get two other people back.... I could see the desperation that suicide is the only thing that -he- can choose.
     
  10. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Desperation? Nah. Spite.

    Killing yourself before they kill you.

    That's what Janeway did in Deadlock.

    She avoided being harvested by the Vidiians when she blew up Voyager before they could get her on a table.
     
  11. Spot's Meow

    Spot's Meow Vice Admiral Premium Member

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    I just watched this episode for the first time today and thought "maybe I'll log on to the Voyager forum to see what discussion there may have been." Woah, I wasn't expecting this thread! Obviously, years later, the debate continues. As for myself, I don't believe there is one right answer. It's a moral dilemma that I'm glad I didn't have to participate in. I can really see the arguments both ways.
     
  12. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    But you can! In this and many other threads!
     
  13. Therin of Andor

    Therin of Andor Admiral Admiral

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    Indeed! Janeway was luck the combination of the new entity was from Tuvok and Neelix. Neelix had no family beyond the Voyager crew, and Tuvok's wife and children would have at least given her decision, to keep Tuvix whole, the blessing of "Yes, a logical decision".

    But imagine if the combined creature was of Tom Paris and Naomi Wildman? Janeway would had had to continue working with Samantha Wildman, and eventually have to meet and work with Admiral Paris, upon her return to UFP space, and attempt to explain her decision to Greskrendtregk (Naomi's father).
     
  14. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    And someone would have implored Janeway to think of the children during that episode!

    But really, aren't you supposed to put children first? If Paromi refused to sacrifice him/herself for Naomi's sake he/she would be a real jerkface.
     
  15. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Didn't you see the two year old crying that she lost her teddy bear?
     
  16. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    What two year old?
     
  17. Gov Kodos

    Gov Kodos Admiral Admiral

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    Kes, I guess.

    Whenever one of Janeway's girls gets the sniffles people die. Not even Tom could motivate Janeway like Seven, Kes, or B'Lanna.
     
  18. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Ooooooo right that two year old and that teddy bear. The two year old who was about to breed.
     
  19. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    So Kes dumps Neelix when she's almost three, but the poor girl is on a ticking clock that after she hits three, a biological clock is going to dong (pun, totally intended.) and the Ocampan is going to need to find a bloke unless she's going to pass on motherhood.

    On Friends, the Lesbians called Ross "Bobo The Sperm Guy."

    Is Neelix excluded to service her becuase of their failed relationship?

    Or at the top of the list to service her because of their successful relationship?
     
  20. Gov Kodos

    Gov Kodos Admiral Admiral

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    But, that year's like a decade to her. Neelix was stupid to be involved with someone whose psychological development should work like a hyper-caffeinated squirrel on an amphetamine high. For Kes, yesterday really is like so last year.