Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Voyager' started by Godless Raven, Apr 11, 2013.

  1. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The captain is not god and isn't allowed to select who lives and who dies based on her personal preferences.
     
  2. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    In certain situations that's exactly what any officer in command has to do.

    Everyone is going to die unless you send Geordie up a heavily irradiated Jeffieries tube to change a fuse.

    This however was not one of those situations.
     
  3. Brit

    Brit Captain Captain

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    You don't "know" that the decision is or is not lawful. Right now as the laws are written in the US, the legal action would be to separate the two, because it is illegal to use any part of a human's body, even after death with out express permission. As far as morality goes, that is a personal decision, my morality may not be yours but it is just as valid as yours. You cannot legislate morality, that's why prohibition didn't work. That's why anti-abortion laws will not work. You can view anything by your own set of moral parameters, but you have no right to impose those parameters on anyone else.

    Janeway was in charge, she made a decision and I don't notice Tuvok or Neelix wanting to be reassembles as Tuvix after they were separated.

    You can think what ever you want, but you cannot impose your idea of morality on anyone else. If you are captain someday you can make the decision to keep Tuvix, but then you might get sued by Tuvok's family. But what ever you do, there will be those that believe you acted in an immoral and criminal action.

    Finally there could be no other outcome for that episode, the regulars had contracts and the guest star didn't. Think about this, do you really believe that the producers wanted to trash their main character, or did the want to show her making hard decisions. I don't believe anyone in charge actually thought that they were showing the Captain of Voyager as an immoral criminal.
     
  4. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    If it was just a question of timing, they could have held the story over and gotten rid of Lien with a Tuvix-like story.

    Harry + Kes = Hot young stacked new Asian girlish regular... I say girlish in appearance, but I'm thinking hermaphrodite under the hood.

    (Bye, bye Harry too.)
     
  5. Melakon

    Melakon Admiral Admiral

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    As in, "Hi! I'm Kim Kes. Pleased to meet you."
     
  6. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    That's different. Troi sent "Geordi" to fix the broken fuse because he was the one who knew how. That's not personal preference. Janeway decided to kill Tuvix because she liked Tuvok and Neelix better. Otherwise Kes's emotional plea and crying wouldn't have caused her to make a choice as it did.
     
  7. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    You're combatively agreeing with me.

    I always liked what Garibaldi once said: "You may not come back alive, but that's okay because your CO has the moral authority to make that call."

    melakon, what we are looking at is most probably Hes, or Karry.

    Which would walk our way into a problem with Carey wondering why some punk stole his name?
     
  8. Gov Kodos

    Gov Kodos Admiral Admiral

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    Or go with Herry Karry...
     
  9. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Normally I think only hipsters use nouns as verbs, but I believe that this time I might just let it fly.
     
  10. dub

    dub Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Location? What is this?
    I like Tuvix.

    You're welcome, GoRe Star. :devil:
     
  11. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Ask and ye shall receive? :p
     
  12. garaks the best

    garaks the best Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    To be fair on an emotional level i understand janeway wanting tuvok(her best friend) and neelix back but the way she tried to guilt trip tuvix into sacrificing himself annoyed me. I was also surprised not one member of the crew even slightly objected to what was happening.
     
  13. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The Doctor did. He stated he couldn't take Tuvix's life against his will. So Janeway did it instead.

    I have no problem with her trying to guilt trip him into volunteering at all. Tuvix himself admitted he was a coward for not nobly sacrificing himself for two others, but being a coward is not a capital crime.
     
  14. garaks the best

    garaks the best Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    Sorry i meant the living breathing members of the crew not the doctor who i really like but was programmed with his morals.
     
  15. Melakon

    Melakon Admiral Admiral

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    Not yet, but some interpretations of so-called "Good Samaritan Laws" may eventually result in it.
     
  16. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Tuvix is manipulative and desperate.

    JANEWAY: Aren't there two other lives to consider here? What about Tuvok and Neelix? Two voices that we can't hear right now. As Captain, I must be their voice, and I believe they would want to live.
    TUVIX: But they are living in a way, inside me.

    TUVIX: Don't you think that I care about Tuvok and Neelix? Of course I do. Without them, I wouldn't exist. In a way, I think of them as my parents. I feel like I know them intimately.


    So he tries to say they are still alive, inside him, and that should be good enough BUT he isn't willing to accept HE will be still alive in them once the transporter accident is rectified.
     
  17. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Wouldn't you be desperate if it was your life they were casually discussing ending?
     
  18. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Think of all the Kazon that would have lived if Janeway had just had the good taste to execute Suder.
     
  19. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Hey! There is continuity there! Janeway didn't wanna punish a murderer because she just knew later on down the road someone would ask her, "So why aren't you getting getting punished like that Suder guy?" Not to mention as clearly demonstrated, having a serial killer in inventory has all kinds of uses. ;)
     
  20. Makarov

    Makarov Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    If the TNG crew dealt with this issue, Picard would have made such a grand speech that Tuvix would have volunteered.

    Apologies if this was brought up before, but couldn't they have just transported Neelix / Tuvok out of him and then left Tuvix intact - similar to what happened to Tom Riker?

    I think the episode is a bit oversimplified by the fact that they needed tuvok / neelix back by the end of it.