Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

Discussion in 'Voyager' started by Godless Raven, Apr 11, 2013.

  1. Gov Kodos

    Gov Kodos Admiral Admiral

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    Not conflating, merely writing poorly. Janeway and the Borg Queen are too similar for each other, though. They tolerate no deviation from their respective collectives, and will destroy any threats to the collective. I'm sure that's why Seven snuggles up so easily around Janeway, it's so much like home with her.
     
  2. Dream

    Dream Admiral Admiral

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    "Retrospect" was another episode where Janeway caused the death of an innocent man.

    Yes, chasing after the weapons dealer JUST to tell him you think he is innocent was STUPID. Just let the guy go and move on. That death was on Janeway.
     
  3. Gov Kodos

    Gov Kodos Admiral Admiral

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    Bull, a badly written episode. That clown got what he deserved.
     
  4. Dream

    Dream Admiral Admiral

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    The Doctor's evidence suggests that Kovin was innocent. Just because he was a jerk doesn't mean he should have died.
     
  5. Gov Kodos

    Gov Kodos Admiral Admiral

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    What would Borg enhanced eidetic memory be worth, anyway? Certainly, the writers forgot about it. Screw him, and frag him.
     
  6. Dream

    Dream Admiral Admiral

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    Seven was distressed and wanted justice. But that doesn't mean a innocent man should have been punished JUST BECAUSE SHE WANTED IT. The world doesn't revolved around her no matter what the writers want us to believe.

    Besides, the weapons dealer was trying to help Voyager in the first place. They lost any ally because the Doctor and Tuvok screwed up.
     
  7. MacLeod

    MacLeod Admiral Admiral

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    No it was not a legal order, as established in "The Measure of a Man" a person even an officer has the right to refuse to undergo a procdure that poses an unnecassary risk to their life. Data was determined to have the right to explore his own being.

    Would Janeway have a made a different decision if at least one of the people involved in the accident weren't close to her?
     
  8. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I saw a movie, could have been a detective drama, where this guy served ten years for the murder of another bloke. After the first guy gets out of the joint, he randomly runs into the supposed to be dead fellah he had been convicted of murdering and logically works out on the spot that he's legally allowed to kill the second guy because he's already served the time for the crime.

    By your logic, the weapons dealer was allowed to r... It wasn't rape, what he did was just nanoprobe harvesting which was an allegory for rape, but he was allowed to be guilty and have done almost anything to Seven just because Janeway had killed him... If he survived? But then he wouldn't be dead and wouldn't have earned the right to bind Seven to a table and remove all her probes.

    Was that before or after the Voyager Conspiracy?
     
  9. Dream

    Dream Admiral Admiral

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    You keep going on about her perfect memory, when it was established that Seven's memories couldn't be trusted in this very episode. Seems like you only choose to go with what you think is convenient.

    Janeway herself says they were all responsible for the merchant's death at the end of the episode.
     
  10. Gov Kodos

    Gov Kodos Admiral Admiral

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    Sanctimonious twaddle from that episode. Nothing more.
     
  11. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    IIRC, that ruling applied only to Data specifically.
     
  12. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Hey thread!!

    I hope you all have a great time talking about Tuvix today and did you know that Tuvix the episode turned 17 years old on May 6th??

    Have a wonderful time chewing on your ancient television, I am leaving the house right now to see Star Trek Into Darkness, that's right..

    BRAND NEW STAR TREK!!!

    Enjoy your tragic murdering moral dilemmas of yore!
     
  13. MacLeod

    MacLeod Admiral Admiral

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    ^I will also be shortly departing to the cinema to see ST: ITD. For once it's going to be nice not to have to avoid this place because of spoilers.
     
  14. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Just remember. People who post spoilers deserve to be stabbed 194 times with a spork.
     
  15. Gov Kodos

    Gov Kodos Admiral Admiral

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    Spork is the result of Cumby's plan to kill Kirk and Spock in a transporter accident. Only Spork is too awesome for the Federation and becomes a target of Cumby, Starfleet, and the crew of the Enterprise, as Uhura refuses to lose her man or sleep with Kirk in any form.
     
  16. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I'm not going to till tomorrow. Stupid children being so damn uncooperative. The world over, 400 kids every hour are lured into white panel vans by candy, but no I have to delay gratification because some punk 7 year old thinks that spending time with his family on his birthday is more important.

    Or I could just take him swimming tomorrow and go myself today?
     
  17. Dream

    Dream Admiral Admiral

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    Janeway also agreed to leave her lizard babies she gave birth to in "Threshold" on a planet to fend for themselves. Instead of taking responsibility for her actions and taking care of her young, she liked condemned them to DEATH.

    What an awful person. :p
     
  18. Gov Kodos

    Gov Kodos Admiral Admiral

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    Keep to the Code, those that fall behind get left behind.
     
  19. Sci

    Sci Admiral Admiral

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    As I understand it, those instances have to be in the performance of essential duties. Janeway can order Chief Engineer Torres to enter a radiation-flooded chamber to dump a breaching warp corp, even if the consequence of this is Torres's death; she does not have the authority to simply order Torres to die. That would still constitute homicide, and be punishable by a court-martial.

    ETA:


    Personhood is defined by the presence of a mind. If two minds cease to exist and a new mind is created from the mixture, then those two persons have died and a new person has been created.
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2013
  20. Dream

    Dream Admiral Admiral

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    Yes, court martial Janeway for her actions.