Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Voyager' started by Godless Raven, Apr 11, 2013.

  1. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Admiral Admiral

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    If Tuvix really had the qualities of Tuvok and Neelix, he would have freely volunteered his life to save both Tuvok and Neelix.

    That he was unwilling to do so demonstrated, concretely, that he was as a mythological changeling, as a troll exchanged for a human infant, but, in this case, two.

    For all intents and purposes, he was a manifestation of the abduction of two crew members, lacking the character of either.

    Additionally, as the degradation that he was, in the long run he was even potentially a security threat to the ship.

    Good riddance.
     
  2. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    There have been 13 discussions about Tuvix as the subject of the thread in the last 6 years. This doesn't include of course the epic derails of people's review threads when they get to Tuvix. This thread is the biggest, the WINNER in the beat Tuvix to death no wait he was never really alive stakes. More than 5 times longer than the second most prolific Tuvix thread.
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2013
  3. Hartzilla2007

    Hartzilla2007 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Which is further supported in Turnabout Intruder when Sulu and Chekov refuse to carry out Lester/Kirk's order to execute Kirk/Lester, Spock, Scotty, and McCoy.
     
  4. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    So if he had volunteered to get whacked, he would have passed some sort of cunning ruse and been allowed to live?

    ...

    Neelix is a deserter who ran a way from a war and people depending on him.

    If Neelix really cared about Voyager and Voyager's crew he never would have found a girlfriend, abandoned Voyager and settled down.

    Tuvok has a fundamental belief in the right to chose suicide if the situation calls for it.

    In The Void Tuvk aruged that voyager should kill rape an pillage from weaker ships in the Void for Voyager to survive.

    ...

    What you call Tuvix's Trollish behaviour, I say is unique characteristics that proove that Tuvix is a distinct being greater than the sum of his parts and a real living feeling being with a soul having the same complete set of rights as everyone else on Voyager.

    ...

    If Neelix really was so damn necessary, then Kathryn should have ordered a less important lower decksman, certianly a Maquis who is barely only qualified to push a mop, to hand over a lung back in seaosn one.

    "Sigh"
     
  5. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Admiral Admiral

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    :lol: :techman:

    No, it was already necessary to bring back Tuvok and Neelix; Tuvix's selfishness should have just made Janeway's decision easier.
     
  6. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I heard if we get to 100 pages, Tuvix will be magically resurrected. :p
     
  7. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    So if your mum needed a kidney and your dad needed a kidney too, and you were all compatible, and if you didn't give a kidney to one of them you're an asshole but if you didn't give a kidney to each of them then you're a motherfucking asshole?

    Voyager was told that they were responsible for the destruction of Earth in the 29th century. Did Janeway submit to her execution to save billions or did she fight back and start up the very chain of events which actually did (and did not) lead to the forecasted certain doom of Planet Earth?

    Is the Doctor less important, and less real, and have less rights, lets be honest, the Doctor has no rights... The Doctor should have killed himself or chosen not to make the cure rather than allow himself to be the architect of Tuvok's execution. WTF was that last minute handwashing bullshit? We all know Pontious Pilot is a cunt and that if he had had some balls Jesus would probably still be alove today.

    If Tuvix had tried to kill the Doctor, then it's appropo if during the proccess if he was aware, then the Doctor should have admitted that Tuvix is more real and more alive and has more rights than he does and that it is the right thing to do under the circumstances to murder a hologram to save a Talaxian/Vulcan hybrid, it was the right thing to do to murder a million holograms to save one Talaxian/Vulcan Hybrid.

    Ergo the Doctor is a selfish dick to cling to his life at the cost of Tuvix's existence.
     
  8. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Admiral Admiral

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    Amusing, but not analogous. Childbirth isn't a malfunction.
     
  9. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I've heard parents say childbirth was an accident and wasn't supposed to happen before. ;)
     
  10. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    And we've already brought up the real world case where parents conceived a child as spare parts for a sick kid they already had.

    Ask your mum how long she spent in the abortionists flipping a coin, while she was making you. Last time I didn't ask, I have no idea why she tells me these things, my mum told me that she had had 5 abortions.

    Condoms malfunction, the pill malfunctions, diaphragms malfunction, spermicidal jelly doesn't quite reach everywhere or the malfunction is the boyfriends head that he's sure that he can pull out before anything squirts out... We are, baring a select few whose parents are crazy, all accidents that ruined our parents lives because they were too wussy of cheap or ignorant to get an abortion.

    Some babies are planned. 95 percent of them however, and that's being generous because of all the 40 year olds in IVF programs, are not.
     
  11. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Admiral Admiral

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    Riiiiiight.
     
  12. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    If your dad hadn't had children he'd own a boat, if he does already have a boat despite you, then he'd have time to actually take it out if you hadn't just "appeared" one fateful day. Meanwhile your mom would be lawyer, if she is a lawyer, then without you she'd be a judge.

    There are churchgroups who pay crack addicts to get their tubes tied.

    The only people who should be having children are emotionally prepared and financially secure adults who have decided that they want to have babies, who are realistic about the necessary sacrifices.

    Too many overweight teenagers are unnecessarily finding surprise babies in their stool, and calling it a miracle.

    Neelix had to really talk himself into being a father of an Ocampan child who would be fully grown and moving in with Harry by her first birthday. He came around to the idea of wanting a child like Tuvix, and we saw his process in how he got there, meanwhile Tuvok was half way through completing his Kholinar training when pon far surprised him... Tuvok can't count to seven? Or did he have to repeat a year which caused a clash?

    Tuvix said that he considered himself the child of Neelix and Tuvok.

    It's the parents job to sacrifice for their kids, not the other way around.
     
  13. Gov Kodos

    Gov Kodos Admiral Admiral

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    Fix the glitch. Its only a question because the minds were combined, if it were only the bodies this wouldn't be an issue. He's no new life form, he's a puree of two officers. Janeway un-pureed them.
     
  14. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    The Doctor had a glitch in Latent Image. Rather than sticking a screwdriver in there, or more accurately after jiggling a screwdriver in his brain failed, Janeway sat beside this rocking mumbling mess and patiently held his holohand while the Doctor tried to work out why the devil he saved Harry instead of a pretty girl.
     
  15. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    My mother tricked my father into impregnating her with me which is probably quite a common way to be conceived. Hearing about as a hilarious tale on the way to school one morning to point out how stupid my father was hopefully isn't that common :rolleyes:

    (LOL this looks stupid when it's not in reply to what I thought it was in reply to because of wandering off and failing to refresh :lol: )
     
  16. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I am pretty sure that was just PR spinning that Tuvix thought might win him some sympathies.
     
  17. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    This is a true story.

    "Keith I'm pregnant."

    "How? You're supposed to be on the pill."

    "Well we were talking about baby names last month so I assumed that that meant that you wanted me to stop taking it."

    "Why the hell would you think that?!"

    "Clear as day, you said "Amelia is such a pretty name" then you said that if we had a daughter that you would call her Amelia."

    ...

    They didn't talk civilly for a year after that, and she had her third boy.
     
  18. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I had a friend who went off the pill after a year of marriage and never mentioned it to the husband. She didn't understand why he was upset at all, she said to me, "I wanted to have a baby so that's what I did." He left after baby number 2.

    And you know what I could tell more stories like this than the thread would have patience for.
     
  19. Gov Kodos

    Gov Kodos Admiral Admiral

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    Only cause another of her girls got the sniffles, and Janeway will do pretty much anything to make her favorite lady of the season happy. That's what bugged me so much about that episode where Doc was using repressed memory therapy on Seven. Leaving aside her Borg enhanced eidetic memory, Janeway goes all out of whack second guessing Seven for the sake of an obvious douche bag arms dealer. That story was crap.
     
  20. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Are you conflating Repression with Latent Image? :)

    Now we can leave them like this muddled up into a single movie length super episode, or can you personally some how un-puree this mega-episode back into dinky latent Image and drab Repression if you feel you have the moral impunity to do so?