Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

Discussion in 'Voyager' started by Godless Raven, Apr 11, 2013.

  1. Captain Kathryn

    Captain Kathryn Commodore Commodore

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    Really?

    This thread has less laughter than Tuvok.
     
  2. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    How many Talaxian/Vulcan transporter Hybrids does it take to screw a lightbulb?

    Just one, but you have to tie the Doctors hands tight to the bed posts.
     
  3. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Watching a TV show means accepting its internal mythology, so all the real life arguments in the world have no bearing on whether or not the Doctor should be considered sentient.

    Just like the fact you can't go faster than light in real life doesn't mean you can't accept warp drive in a TV show.

    Obviously they couldn't leave Tuvix in one piece because Tuvok and Neelix are main characters. But the way they ended it was just plain murder, they could have made the decision not to kill him then 'Whoops, Vulcan and Talaxian genes aren't compatible it turns out, he's going to die anyway' like they do in most episodes like that one.
     
  4. Melakon

    Melakon Admiral Admiral

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    This is a significant point. They took a risk with a different resolution rather than having Tuvix go through a physical deterioration due to the accident.
     
  5. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    We're not sure if they remember being Tuvix.

    If they did remember everything, a month is a very long time to go with out masturbating. Maybe it's not very long for Tuvok, but I doubt Neelix can last 3 days without some quality alone time.
     
  6. Melakon

    Melakon Admiral Admiral

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    That explains why Neelix had hair everywhere.
     
  7. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Even on his tongue?

    Space Yoga kicks the shit out of Earth Yoga.

    Sexual stuff aside, the memories they'd walk away withwould have been complexly embarrassaring.

    Just cleaning everything.

    Before Tuvix, Tuvok did not feel compelled to sniff his own armpits after washing them with a moist towel to make sure the soapy smell stuck.

    Hmmm.

    If Tuvix had argued successfully for his life, then what about Kes later in Warlord?

    (Or would she have abandoned ship in disgust by that point since they all killed her lover?)
     
  8. Gov Kodos

    Gov Kodos Admiral Admiral

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    And what about Tuvok's katra? Will that be part Talaxian when the Vulcans finally get it out on the metaphysical dissection table?
     
  9. Hartzilla2007

    Hartzilla2007 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Wasn't Tuvix a better cook than Neelix, though (Probably becuase he wasn't tryig to shoehorn that crappy tasting root into everything). So by the logic the coffee would taste better so keeping him around is a better idea.
     
  10. Gov Kodos

    Gov Kodos Admiral Admiral

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    Like hair dressers, and bartenders, you don't lightly change baristas.
     
  11. marksound

    marksound Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Fifteen pages? Really? For another Voyager "reset button" episode? :lol:
     
  12. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    IIRC, yes, they did.
     
  13. DonIago

    DonIago Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I don't recall it ever being alluded to later in the series. Heck, I'm not sure it's even come up in non-canon material, which strikes me as a lost opportunity.
     
  14. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I could see how you might think that, but I couldn't possibly comment.

     
  15. Melakon

    Melakon Admiral Admiral

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    We know from other episodes how Janeway tortures herself when a crewmember dies under her command, even if we've never seen them onscreen. Part of that final pause in the doorway could be this has affected her too. Maybe her decision of what's best for the ship conflicted with her own moral beliefs, and someone died because she had to make that choice.
     
  16. Dream

    Dream Admiral Admiral

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    Blame the fans that keep saying Janeway isn't a murderer when she clearly is.
     
  17. Dale Sams

    Dale Sams Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    By the way...at no point do I see Neelix or Tuvok saying.."Holy crap. Where have we been? What day is this? We were beaming up and...what happened?" This would indicate to me a continuation of consciousness. And murder or no. Neelix and Tuvok are more deserving of life than that Tuvix guy who was alive for three weeks.

    Those are the tough decisions Captains have to make and all the comparisons in the world to genocide and Eugenics Wars doesn't change that. What would you have her do? NOTHING? Not make a choice because "She's not fit to choose between one or another?" Not making a choice is a choice people.

    It's also good to know that the EMH would not cure Geordi when he was transformed into an alien creature. Nor Archer and Hoshi when they went through the same thing. Both very similar occurances of an alien life, through reproduction, taking a crewman.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2013
  18. sonak

    sonak Vice Admiral Admiral

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    the comparisons to murdering someone to get their organs are pointless. They don't come remotely near the scenario in "Tuvix," where it would be more like if one of your boyfriend's kidneys had magically popped into another man's body without either one actually doing anything voluntarily to do that.

    Tuvix is NOT a random bystander that Janeway is murdering to get at his organs. He's the guy who's PREVENTING(not on purpose) Neelix and Tuvok from being restored.
     
  19. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I'm amused that at the end of it, they're both in the gold uniform Tuvix was wearing.

    1. What happened to the original clothes they were wearing a month earlier? Surely little bits of Neelix's underwear floating though their bloodstream is going to turn into cancer if he doesn't figure out how to work it out.

    2. Each of those suits now has half the molecular density, which means they're only half as rough and tumble ready wear as they should be, and might rip from contact with a stray breeze... Just saying.

    3. Is Neelix going to want to keep his half of the gold uniform? It's his, and the pips on his collar too?

    4. If Tuvok going to want to Keep his half of the gold unifrom, because it smells of Tuvix. Nasally racist: nasist. Tuvok is going to burn his sheets. Actually where did Tuvix live? Did he have two rooms, for just in case, or did Kathryn consolidate space and wedge Neelix and Tuvok's stuff into Tuvixes quarters? If Kes was into what he had to offer, that means that they would have had three rooms between the two of them... And his ship, and she would have had to have christened airponics with someone in the timelines she stayed on Voyager without her virginity.

    5. Were the gold suits the same size? Those two do not have the same inside leg or chest measurements. The wrong sized clothes materializing around them could have murdered one of these two men. Or broken a couple toes if one of them has shoes three sizes smaller than the other.

    6. It had to be fixed. Tuvix wore a mottled leopard print like variation of the Star Fleet uniform. to disintegrate into coveralls so completely well for two such differently shaped men, like a stripper with velcro tear away trousers, the clothing was designed to tear away. Whoever designed that suit (The Doctor?)... MADE that suit did so knowing what Tuvix was going to be split and that when Tuvix was going to be split that no passrbys would have to observe either of these lads junk by accident.
     
  20. Dale Sams

    Dale Sams Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Also:

    Not enough credit is given to Mulgrew's choices at the end. Dead steely resolve, no apologies. One last look as if to acknowledge his 'realness' and so she won't ever forget and can't say she didn't have the courage not to look him in the eyes.

    Then the last shot, some remorse, then that steely "I'm the Captain" look. And props to the music on the final Voyager flyby too. Reminiscent of the music for "Private Little War".
     

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