Janeway in the cases of Quinn and Tuvix

Discussion in 'Voyager' started by MatthiasRussell, May 17, 2012.

  1. MatthiasRussell

    MatthiasRussell Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Before Sisko went to live at the celestial temple, he had only experienced visions and guidance, same as many other people. When Sisko 'died' fighting Dukat, I have no idea what happened to him at that point, whether he bodily taken away or just his consciousness. However, up until that point, we have no reason to belief he was anything other than a human who had regular contact with a non coporial species. Just because his conception was guided by the prophets doesn't make any more or less human than a test tube baby.
     
  2. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Well, it took a lot of technology going bollocks but Sisko is a walking paradox after his stint as Gabriel Bell.

    That shit has got to leave marks.
     
  3. exodus

    exodus Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Picard and a publishers opinions mean nothing.
    It's society and the government, not the military that determine whether a being should be considered for equal rights or not.
     
  4. exodus

    exodus Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    ..but it does because Sisko biological mother was a Prophet, which made Sisko equal to Bajorian Jesus. Sisko like Jesus was part God.
     
  5. Sindatur

    Sindatur Vice Admiral Admiral

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    That's not how I remember it? What I remember is Benjamin's mother was a Human Woman, who the Prophet possessed and manipulated into marrying Benjamin's father, so Benjamin would be conceived. When the Prophet left his mother, she "fell out of love" with Benjamin's father and that's when she left the house.

    So, perhaps, there is some Prophet in Benjamin, due to his biological mother being possesed by the Prophet during conception, but, the Prophet is not Benjamin's biological mother.

    Am I remembering wrong?
     
  6. exodus

    exodus Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Either way, the point was Ben is part Prophet.
     
  7. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Was the human meat of the mother changed by the prophet is the question.

    Didn't Joe say that Mommy stayed for 2 years?

    Think about a cake,

    You can bake a chocolate cake (shut up.) and it's a chocolate cake.

    But if you add bananas to the recipe while cooking it's now a chocolate/banana cake.

    However.

    If you bake a chocolate cake and then after it's finished cooking, you put banana icing on it, is it a chocolate cake, or a chocolate banana cake?
     
  8. exodus

    exodus Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    It's still chocolate banana cake.
     
  9. MatthiasRussell

    MatthiasRussell Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Sindatur is right, Sisko was genetically human, not a hybrid. A prophet possessed Sisko's mother and guided her but didn't change her. If sisko had been something other than human, that would have been in his medical records. All they did was maneuver events to ensure his conception.

    As fo the Jesus comparison, that's opening a whole other can of worms.
     
  10. exodus

    exodus Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I don't think there's a right or wrong.
    It's open to your own personal interpretation like most religious issues. Seriously, how do medical examinations detect Prophet(God) in your DNA? If God could be scientifically proven, then it wouldn't be God.

    As far as a can of worms..
    So is talking about a DS9 topic in the Voy. forum.:lol:
     
  11. MatthiasRussell

    MatthiasRussell Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    ^touche.

    Just because God/gods haven't been scientifically proven or disproven doesn't mean they can't be. Just because we don't understand something, doesn't mean it is not understandable.
     
  12. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Do humans have coexisting "overlapping" noncoporial subsistencies?

    Wow what a lot of words to say "Soul".

    An alien soul in a human body.

    Where have I heard that from before?
     
  13. DonIago

    DonIago Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    A Prophet Not Born of the Prophets? :)
     
  14. MatthiasRussell

    MatthiasRussell Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    If anyone was a god-child, it was that thing that Troi virgin-birthed. Not that she hadn't shagged a time or 2.
     
  15. exodus

    exodus Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    That is not your original stance.
    Your statement was God/gods can be scientifically proven via medical records. There was no maybe in your claim.
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2012
  16. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    But they are scientifically killable according to DS9 The Assignment.
     
  17. Sindatur

    Sindatur Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Okay, so, I watched Year of Hell, and then skipped forward to episode 6.18, the Lindsay Ballard episode, so, I could see what everyone is talking about. I don't see the problem, or Janeway's inconsistency.

    Capt Picard and Annika were assimilated
    Neelix and Tuvok were merged
    None of them actually died, they were still retrievable
    Crusher tried and succeeded in De-assimilating Capt. Picard, and the EMH did likewise with Annika
    The EMH was able to de-merge Neelix and Tuvok

    In Lindsay Ballard's case, she died on an Away Mission, the EMH was unable to bring her back to life. Voyager had a Funeral Service for her, and buried her in space.
    Another species found her corpse, reanimated it, changed it's genetics and placed another personality into it. This should have resulted in Lindsay Ballard personality being lost, but, her memory still partially survived and she returned to Voyager for Sanctuary, and was granted it
    The EMH tried to restore Lindsay completely, but, was unsuccessful in removing the Kobari Genetic changes. His partial efforts were less successful than he realized, and the Kobari personality started reasserting itself, and he would have to treat her several times a day, for the rest of her life. Lindsay couldn't handle that, and realized she didn't belong on Voyager, and there was no cure. Lindsay (not the Kobari personality) decided she couldn't live like this, she couldn't even do her job with the EMH providing her treatment several times a day. Lindsay decided to leave Voyager and allow the Kobari personality to take over.

    So, Janeway made the same decision for Lindsay, that she did for Neelix, Tuvok and Annika, she gave precedence to the claim on the body to the original personality. Tuvok, Neelix and Annika were all successfully cured (and never died). The attempt to cure Lindsay failed, she was dead, unable to be restored, and the Lindsay personality was fading away, despite the attempts to cure her. Nothing more could be done, she honored Lindsay's request to be allowed to die again and let the Kobari personality take over. if Lindsay hadn't made that decision, the Kobari personality would still have taken over, but, Lindsay wouldn't have a chance to say goodbye to everyone and her Kobari personality would've been stuck on Voyager and felt out of place.
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2012
  18. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    So, fuck you Harry Kim, but these days, what with Bobby dead, end even though she said "i'm going to use my mom voice" when telling Sam what to do a few months back, Lyndsasy is still way hot enough to be a love interest for one of those Winchester boys on Supernatural... Besides, who doesn't love a woman in uniform (with a gun)?

    Actually, her boy came back as a Zombie.

    Did she shoot him in the face or did Sam becuase that's something a mother shouldn't have to do?
     
  19. exodus

    exodus Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    In a nut shell.:)
     
  20. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    O God, I could be bounded in a nutshell, and count myself a king of infinite space—were it not that I have bad dreams?
     

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