Jack Bauer and 24 series on precipice of same mistake ST. TNG made.

Discussion in 'The Next Generation' started by Mutara Nebula 1967, Apr 24, 2010.

  1. M'rk son of Mogh

    M'rk son of Mogh Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: Jack Bauer and 24 series on precipice of same mistake ST. TNG made

    He directed a couple of other action movies. It's not like he had NO experience.

    Besides, Trek hired sci-fi actors to direct feature length movies. You have to start somewhere, don't you?
     
  2. JarodRussell

    JarodRussell Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Jack Bauer and 24 series on precipice of same mistake ST. TNG made

    Yeah, Executive Decision and US Marshals. Those were not entirely bad, but for a science fiction movie, you need someone who has a sense for visuals, and not only for action. This lack of sense becomes apparent every time in the movie. "Alien planet environment? Let's just put a yellow filter on the lens." is only one example.

    Paramount hired sci-fi actors to direct, but only after they had already done sci-fi episodes to test the waters. And since these actors came from the show, they knew the characters.

    Nemesis would have been a lot better had Frakes directed it.
     
  3. Joel_Kirk

    Joel_Kirk Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: Jack Bauer and 24 series on precipice of same mistake ST. TNG made

    Well, a movie starts with a script.

    If the script is shit. No director is going to save it.
     
  4. GalaxyX

    GalaxyX Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: Jack Bauer and 24 series on precipice of same mistake ST. TNG made

    Clean up the script and let Frakes direct it and it would have been First Contact #2, which would have been fine with me.
     
  5. Therin of Andor

    Therin of Andor Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Jack Bauer and 24 series on precipice of same mistake ST. TNG made

    That is balderdash.

    The actors signed the standard Hollywood five-year contract, then negotiated hefty new pay deals for Season Six, and again for Season Seven. Patrick Stewart and Brent Spiner priced themselves out of the running for any kind of TV pay deal for an eighth season so, if there was to be any more TNG featuring them, it had to be a feature film.

    TV SF spends a lot of money on SPFX and has little left over from the payment of actor salaries.
     
  6. Tomalak

    Tomalak Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Jack Bauer and 24 series on precipice of same mistake ST. TNG made

    Exactly, it was simple economics. The show was becoming too expensive to make, with falling ratings, and plenty of episodes to sell for syndicated reruns.

    Paramount wanted a Star Trek show on their new network, and a new Star Trek movie. Since the TOS cast had called it a day, it all added up to the end of TNG, that cast continuing in movies, and a new show on UPN.
     
  7. RobertScorpio

    RobertScorpio Pariah

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    Re: Jack Bauer and 24 series on precipice of same mistake ST. TNG made

    I think 24, and I am a huge fan, has run its course. When both the lead actor and the creators say pretty much that the show has lost creativity? Its time to end it before it does an XFILES and stays on too long...as for a movie version? I will have to wait and see about that..

    Rob
     
  8. doubleohfive

    doubleohfive Fleet Admiral

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    Re: Jack Bauer and 24 series on precipice of same mistake ST. TNG made

    TNG had enough episodes to syndicate (or re-syndicate) by the end of season 5.

    As for 24, maybe you all are watching a different show than me but it's been pretty largely creatively bankrupt for years.

    24: Redemption proved they could tell a shortened story in semi-feature format. It only makes sense that given the tropes of the series now being done and re-done to death that they'd go for a bigger-scale production for Jack Bauer.
     
  9. doubleohfive

    doubleohfive Fleet Admiral

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    Re: Jack Bauer and 24 series on precipice of same mistake ST. TNG made

    Superman: The Movie. Casino Royale (2006). Die Hard 2. Tommy. The Omen. Outland. Executive Decision.

    Likely, Baird got the directing assignment as part of his overall deal with Paramount. It happens all the time, just depends on how good your agent is. Once again boys and girls it can all be traced to the almighty dollar sign.
     
  10. JarodRussell

    JarodRussell Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Jack Bauer and 24 series on precipice of same mistake ST. TNG made

    Yet directing and editing are really two entirely different things. He directed only two movies: Executive Decision and US Marshals.
     
  11. doubleohfive

    doubleohfive Fleet Admiral

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    Re: Jack Bauer and 24 series on precipice of same mistake ST. TNG made

    I'm not saying editing and directing aren't different things. Obviously, they are.

    What I was saying was that in his overall deal with Paramount to edit for them, he probably had an added benefit/option to direct as well, and Nemesis just happened to be the slot they gave him.

    This kind of optioning happens all the time in Hollywood contracts and has more to do with the people than with the property.

    Example: In 1985, Patrick Duffy left Dallas at the end of the season. He came back in the 1986-1987 season, but had his deal to return sweetened with the added option that he could produce and star in another series for Lorimar Telepictures (the production company that made Dallas). Thus, 1991 in when Dallas ended, Duffy went on to star in Step By Step for Lorimar.

    Baird directing Nemesis was less about creative instinct or who was best suited to direct the film and simply more about contract options. He only directed two movies by that point, so what? George Lucas had only directed two films before making Star Wars. Spielberg had only made one film by the time he directed Jaws. Additionally, the studio *wanted* someone new to the franchise directing. In retrospect we can now see that this, combined with Logan's awful script led to a serious letdown. But, live and learn.

    The point, summarized: It was a business decision by Paramount, not a creative one.
     
  12. Harvey

    Harvey Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Jack Bauer and 24 series on precipice of same mistake ST. TNG made

    Not to disagree with your point--it makes perfect sense that Baird ended up on Star Trek: Nemesis to fulfill studio obligations of some sort--but your examples of Spielberg and Lucas aren't the finest ones around. Spielberg was an established television director before coming to Jaws, and had already directed the well-reviewed The Sugarland Express and Duel (though a TV movie, it saw some theatrical distribution). Lucas had only two directing assignments under his belt (beyond his work as a student filmmaker, of course), but he did have a hit with American Graffiti and was also the writer of Star Wars.

    Baird, to draw a comparison, had directed two contemporary action films, neither of which was a major hit at the box office, before coming to Star Trek: Nemesis, a film he did not write.
     
  13. doubleohfive

    doubleohfive Fleet Admiral

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    Re: Jack Bauer and 24 series on precipice of same mistake ST. TNG made

    Fair enough... however the way the point was brought up earlier "Baird had only directed two films before Nemesis" seemed to imply that because of the limited number of directing jobs he'd had, he was thus unqualified. My main point in citing Spielberg and Lucas, who as we all know did have other directing jobs before their big hits, had also only done limited work prior to their first big successes.

    I guess my question then becomes -- is the problem the fact that Baird did not have enough experience (in some people's eyes), or is it that he just plain sucks as a director?
     
  14. Joel_Kirk

    Joel_Kirk Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: Jack Bauer and 24 series on precipice of same mistake ST. TNG made

    Well, Baird is an editor....so he would/should have some sense of film narrative.

    As I probably mentioned in the movie section, there were couple of issues:

    *Baird didn't do his research...i.e. He thought that LaForge was an alien...

    *Story flow; certain scenes just didn't need to be there....or tweaked...

    *Shinzon wasn't that interesting.

    *The film was only marketed to the TNG crowd; it came off as a routine Trek film.