J.J. admits keeping Khan's identity a secret was a mistake

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies: Kelvin Universe' started by M.A.C.O., Dec 3, 2013.

  1. CorporalClegg

    CorporalClegg Admiral Admiral

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    Maybe. As successful? Hard to say.

    Not really.

    Hence Abrams's point.

    I did. But the decision to use Khan wasn't about the fans. It was about the non-fans. And even with the reveal as it was, it surely helped some:

    "Grr. Arrg. I am super evil guy who's better at everything. My name is John Harrison."

    "Who?"

    "A long time ago in this same galaxy I was called 'Khan'."

    "Oohhhhhh!"

    FTFY
     
  2. Hartzilla2007

    Hartzilla2007 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Yeah, I guess we just all hate The Empire Strikes Back now :rolleyes:

    Which is funny seeing as from what i can tell the general censuses is that A New Hope.
     
  3. JWPlatt

    JWPlatt Commodore Commodore

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    Not that Cumberbatch meant any of it, and not that he and Abrams are anything but friendly, but do you really think the motion picture industry is full of people who don't think the people they work with are dickheads and still sign the contracts?
     
  4. Dukhat

    Dukhat Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    ^Maybe, but you don't call someone a dickhead in public and then expect to ever work for them again. Unless the caller and the callee both know it's just a joke with no undertones of seriousness, which is exactly what this was. You're the one who implied that Cumberbatch was somehow actually thinking this, which is of course completely wrong.
     
  5. MakeshiftPython

    MakeshiftPython Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    It's likely jest on his part. You can't throw insults like that unless you're legends like Sean Connery.
     
  6. JWPlatt

    JWPlatt Commodore Commodore

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    By "you're" I guess you mean me. Really? Do you also believe I wrote the article just to comment on it here? The thought you assign to me came from the article.

    Shall we begin parsing the article that parsed Cumberbatch?
     
  7. Dukhat

    Dukhat Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I'm not sure what you're talking about. I'm talking about this quote from you...

    ...which seems to imply that you think Cumberbatch was actually somehow deep down thinking Abrams is a dick, most likely because you feel that he is as well and you're taking BC's quote out of context to suit your own beliefs.

    You're welcome to think Abrams is a dick all you want to. But there's no "truth" about BC thinking the same thing, even by using humor to disguise it.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2013
  8. JWPlatt

    JWPlatt Commodore Commodore

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    It doesn't matter what I think. The article made the implication that you persist in confusing. I suspect the truth is that the statement resonates with enough people to be funny whether Cumberbatch thinks Abrams is a dickhead or not.
     
  9. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    You could at least stand by what you said which was that there must be some truth to Cumberbatch thinking Abrams was a dickhead even if he said it in joking.
     
  10. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    If the rumours are true and Cumberbatch is the baddie in the new Star Wars trilogy, then I think it's safe to say he and Abrams are on very good terms.
     
  11. JWPlatt

    JWPlatt Commodore Commodore

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    I've been quite clear that it's the article that suggests it. I also said Abrams is one. But I have not said Cumberbatch said it with any more intent than as a joke. I have said it resonates as humor because the truth in it is that there are enough people who do believe it's true, and Cumberbatch must at least be aware of that to make the joke. If it pleases you, think of it as Cumberbatch mocking those of us who believe Abrams is a dickhead.

    I'll quote myself on this point - something I wrote in response to something similar from BillJ, who has not chosen to address it and apparently forgot my first sentence in his latest retort:
    Mod note: I would have combined the above two posts, but I don't see how to delete this post after moving the text to the previous post.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 8, 2013
  12. Kelthaz

    Kelthaz Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I wasn't aware of that rumour. He would make an excellent Sith Lord.
     
  13. M'Sharak

    M'Sharak Definitely Herbert. Maybe. Moderator

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    If I remember correctly, a post count of 1000+ is required for full deletion of posts (though an edit to "post deleted" should be possible now.) For these, I'll just merge the two.
     
  14. Dukhat

    Dukhat Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I'm not confusing anything. Your quote was quite clearly twisting BC's words around to suit your own beliefs. And you keep insisting that there are so many people out there that think Abrams is a dick and that's what makes the quote so funny. So where are all these people?

    The quote is funny, but not for the reasons you're ascribing to it.

    Now this is true.
     
  15. Hober Mallow

    Hober Mallow Commodore Commodore

    Even assuming Abrams is a fucking dick... what does it matter?
     
  16. Kelthaz

    Kelthaz Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Yeah, I'm not even sure what this conversation is about any longer.

    So about that Khan thing, huh? I think that marketing a summer blockbuster action film without an identifiable villain is a bad idea. It can work if done properly, but in this case I think it left the trailers feeling empty. I think if the marketing for the film had been focused on "James Kirk's greatest enemy returns" rather than "some random terrorist with a generic name does stuff" it would have done better at the box office.
     
  17. Gaith

    Gaith Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Well, to be fair (I guess) - and there's a belated reply to JarodRussell here - the script as writen very much encourages the hidden marketing and big reveal. If they'd advertised the "RETURN OF KHAN!!!" but only had our heroes learn his true identity halfway through, and at no point actually learn what made him such a fearsome figure in the first place, general audience and fan reaction would doubtless have been that the return of such a storied villain was a big ol' box o' nothing.

    If, however, Khan had been the openly identified villain throughout the movie, it would have been impossible to keep that under wraps. It's only because the name Khan is such a small part of the story that they were able to do so - which in turn explains why it was so meaningless.
     
  18. suarezguy

    suarezguy Commodore Commodore

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    As someone who avoids spoilers but inadvertently (memoryalpha) learned that Khan was in in some way involved in ID, I didn't figure Harrison would be him and was surprised when he was revealed to be but that quickly turned to being underwhelmed.
     
  19. Shaka Zulu

    Shaka Zulu Commodore Commodore

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    Okay, then we can also agree that most Star Trek fans are what I've said they were before, and move on.
     
  20. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I think you missed that my post was a bit sarcastic. :eek: