J.J. admits keeping Khan's identity a secret was a mistake

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies: Kelvin Universe' started by M.A.C.O., Dec 3, 2013.

  1. SeerSGB

    SeerSGB Admiral Admiral

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    That was only after he thought Spock had killed his people. Before that, he just wanted to kick Marcus's ass and get his people back.
     
  2. Lance

    Lance Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    ^ Which was a revenge story against Marcus, was it not?
     
  3. JarodRussell

    JarodRussell Vice Admiral Admiral

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    It also was promoted as revenge story. When Cumberbatch said he wanted to have his vengeance, he wasn't talking about the ship.
     
  4. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    Those teasers were nothing if not misdirecting.
     
  5. Set Harth

    Set Harth Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I'm still wondering how Cumberbatch detonated the fleet.
     
  6. Jeyl

    Jeyl Commodore Commodore

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    Actually, no. Khan was out for revenge from the very start. He says so himself.

    Revenge.

    If he actually wanted to recover his people, you think he would have had that guy with the explosive ring run a check to see what Section 31 had actually done with the torpedoes? Nope. He just wanted to blow them all up.

    But hey, this is how you treat an iconic villain in Star Trek. Everything he does is misguided because he assumed everything incorrectly. Maybe the original Khan just "assumed" that his 20 followers died when they just moved to a different part of the planet, and Marla went with them.
     
  7. Harvey

    Harvey Admiral Admiral

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    Revenge is certainly an element of the story, but trying to describe Star Trek Into Darkness as a simple revenge narrative is a little reductive. There's more to the movie than that, including a primary villain (Marcus) who's motivation and actions have nothing to do with revenge.
     
  8. bbailey861

    bbailey861 Admiral Premium Member

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    Absolutely, and as I continue to rewatch the film on Blu-ray I also continue to find more things I like about it. Weller played Marcus really well - and although we know how he meets his end (that had to have hurt!) I would love to know more about how he became the way he did.
     
  9. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I really liked Weller in the movie.

    I know it sounds like gushing, but I don't think there's a bad performance too be found in Star Trek Into Darkness. The entire cast displays an energy that has been missing from Star Trek for a very, very long time.
     
  10. Lance

    Lance Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Agree. :techman: One thing I'm still very pleased about NuTrek is the cast they chose. All of them are awesome, in fact I was only thinking the other day just how much I think Pine aces his role as Kirk. I'd love to see them in these roles for a few more movies after the next one but I'm doubtful that's gonna happen. :(

    I do like the bait-and-switch of Weller being the 'actual' villain of the movie. Even when Khan pops him like a grape I never felt anything but empathy for CumberKhan's predicament (did the film-makers intend that, or am I 'supposed' to see Khan as a bad guy? Hella mistake if they didn't).

    On the other hand, the use of two villains puts me in mind of all those comic book movies, where they're both kinda jostling for their share of the plot. Bad memories of Spider-Man 3 maybe where I thought that kinda thing blew up in the face of the studio executives and audience. Throwing more at us isn't always the answer although I admit in Star Trek it's a refreshing change from the 'one villain' format of years past.
     
  11. JarodRussell

    JarodRussell Vice Admiral Admiral

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    It was still the basic main and secondary bad guy formula. You have that in Nemesis, Insurrection, Generations. In Insurrection, Picard even teams up with the secondary bad guy.
     
  12. Lance

    Lance Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    ^ I hadn't really thought about it that way, but you are absolutely right. :) All I can say is, I think STID maybe presents the 'villains' on more of a par with each other, whereas the older movies were definitely a "primary villain, secondary villain" format. The Duras sisters took down the Ent-D, but when I think of the 'villain' in GENS I tend to overlook them completely, so relatively insignificant are they to the thrust of the plot. That movie actually feels like it's only got one villain... when it's really got three! :D
     
  13. Peach Wookiee

    Peach Wookiee Cuddly Mod of Doom Moderator

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    And that makes it a lot of fun! I saw Into Darkness twice in the theaters and it was amazing! And yeah, JJ should've just gone ahead and told us it was KHAAAAAAAAAAN!
     
  14. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I love these little bits about Weller's performance of Marcus, like "Aw, shit, YOU TALKED TO HIM!" :guffaw:
     
  15. austen_pierce

    austen_pierce Captain Captain

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    OK I haven't read the 10+pages of posts on this thread, but Khan's identity was a secret? IMDB.com had Cumberbatch playing Khan from the get-go. This was later changed to John Harrison, but IMO the cat was out of the bag.
     
  16. Devon

    Devon Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    IMDB is user edited, like Wiki. Someone out there submitted that were going off the same kind of blind speculation anyone else was. It was a "good guess."
     
  17. ROBE

    ROBE Commander Red Shirt

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    I thought Commander John Harrison was more interesting than whitewashed Khan.
     
  18. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Admiral Admiral

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    IMDB is not ever to be trusted as a source of info for forthcoming movies. This was the rare time when someone posted a rumour there that turned out to be a fact.

    Cumberbatch was never officially revealed by Bad Robot to be playing Khan prior to the movie's release. In fact, for ten months after he was cast nothing was given in regards to who he was playing, then it was revealed to be "John Harrison."

    Everyone guessed he was Khan anyway, but Bad Robot attempted to keep it a secret regardless.
     
  19. JarodRussell

    JarodRussell Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Everyone knew it was going to be Khan because the writers are very predictable.
     
  20. austen_pierce

    austen_pierce Captain Captain

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    Agree. All that would be needed is for a tweak to the 'people in the torpedoes' plot point, and Khan could be effectively written out of the movie.