J.J. Abrams enters The Twilight Zone

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by HaplessCrewman, Jun 7, 2013.

  1. Happy Xmas (War Is Over)

    Happy Xmas (War Is Over) Fleet Admiral Premium Member

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    No its not. It's hyperbolic BS. If you think that a woman at a bar picking up drinks for a her friends, who is hit by a guy and uses humor and sarcasm to shut him down is a "bar babe". Then I think you might want to turn in your feminist card. Ditto, if you assume that a woman who has scored in the top of her class and expects a position commensurate with that, challenges the person who gives her a lesser position. Nothing in their exchange implies Uhura was manipulating Spock through sex. That you think so speaks to your opinion of women, which doesn't seem very positive. Get your mind out of that gutter in the 1950s.

    You called Kirk a "delinquent loser". Not seeing that. Yeah Pike does refer to Kirk as "genius-level repeat offender". Key word is 'genius", not "offender". He also gets through the Academy in three yeasr and found a way to beat the Kobayashi Maru test. Is he all that different than Prime Kirk? The guy who was described a "not a Boy Scout" by his ex. Who also beat the Koyayashi Maru (Prime McCoy called it cheating). He regularly defied orders, pissed high level bureaucrat and gained a reputation as a "cowboy."

    Scotty's a "loser" because he got a punishment assignment because a piss off an Admiral while trying prove an engineering theory he had? This is the guy who's Prime counterpart transported a herd of tribbles on to a Klingon ship (with out informing his CO), threw the first punch in a bar fight and sabotaged a Federation ship (to aid in the hijacking of another)

    Spock is a psycho? Was Prime Spock a psycho when he suggested they kill Gary Mitchell? When he rigged a torpedo to kill Chang? When he hijacked the ship on several occasions. When he tried to kill his commanding officer, more than once? When he threatened to kill McCoy?

    Operation: Annihilate! ends with this exchange:

    A bit light, considering that among the victims spread out over several star systems, are Kirk's brother and sister in law. ( and possibly his other nephews).
     
  2. Kestrel

    Kestrel Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Also, recall that she's assigned to Farragut in the first place because of Spock attempting to avoid an appearance of favoritism. Rather than "manipulating him" it's a case of "Remember I'm not just your girlfriend, idiot, I'm also damned talented and I deserve to be on Enterprise."



    ETA: Also, no JJ for Doctor Who! But that's because I want it to stay as British as possible in production, especially the directors and producers; I love his work otherwise.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2013
  3. RJDonner&Blitzen

    RJDonner&Blitzen Idealistic Cynic and Canon Champion Premium Member

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    Heh. No, resorting to political dodges won't change anything.

    Interesting, because he was deliberately portrayed as a delinquent loser by the writers-- that was their purpose in killing off his father. In the original universe, he was a "positively grim" student. He beat the Kobayashi Maru by finding a way to beat the no-win scenario that they hadn't thought of-- nuKirk simply hacked the program and caused the Klingons to blow up for no reason. He was going to be kicked out of the academy for it, not given a commendation for original thinking.

    Yup, he was stuck in solitary confinement in some useless job.

    Yes, he tried to kill Kirk twice. Premeditated the first time, since he had the option of the brig or confinement to quarters or sick bay, rather than shoot him off alone to crash on a hostile planet.

    People often need a light moment after a traumatic experience. That situation is not even slightly analogous.

    And, since you're getting so bent out of shape about the whole thing, I really have no interest in going over it all again and again.
     
  4. YellowSubmarine

    YellowSubmarine Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    But throughout the new Star Trek films Uhura was exceptional. We had a testimony by Spock of her abilities as a cadet, way before he was burdened by the destruction of Vulcan – and there's no reason to doubt his judgement. We saw her replace the acting communications officer because he was unqualified for the mission. We saw her take on exotic alien languages with ease, at short notice in extremely stressful circumstances. She was seen maintaining composure when other crewmen were losing it, participating in combat, and repeatedly proving she deserves a position on the flagship. That's more credit than TOS episodes have usually given her.

    Characterising that as a "bar babe who manipulates superior officers with sex" is painfully unfair.
     
  5. Gov Kodos

    Gov Kodos Admiral Admiral

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    Women have no business flirting. Oh, she didn't in the bar. Then, getting on Enterprise. Oh, she stood on her credentials. She's too cute.
     
  6. Fruitcake

    Fruitcake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Seriously what the heck? Where is the Kirk criticism if we are going to start bashing characters for flirting and having sexual relationships? And that's both Kirks, Nu and Prime.

    A bar babe, did you even see the movie?
     
  7. Gov Kodos

    Gov Kodos Admiral Admiral

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    Well, Pine is a bar babe.
     
  8. DalekJim

    DalekJim Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    The romance with Spock is dumb but otherwise NuUhura is an OK character. She's just given far too much focus, which is a bit annoying as just about everybody prefers McCoy and Scotty.

    I think the issue we have is that Star Trek has never really been a loud, dumb, adrenaline ride. The writing is now an afterthought, when it used to be the driving force of the series. I actually like the stagey feel of the TV series, and feel uncomfortable seeing Star Trek resemble Bayformers.
     
  9. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Kirk reprogrammed the test to make it possible to save the ship...

    Prime Kirk hacked the simulation as well... :rolleyes:
     
  10. Kemaiku

    Kemaiku Admiral Admiral

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    And McCoy said the board would rule in his favour, allowing him to stay on, most likely a reference to that commendation, only this time the semester was cut short by the Vulcan incident.
     
  11. Kestrel

    Kestrel Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Exactly. What happened in Trek '09 with the Kobayashi Maru fits beat-for-beat what was described in The Wrath of Khan.
     
  12. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

    "Listen, kiddo, Jim Kirk was many things, but he was never a Boy Scout!" - Carol Marcus
     
  13. Scroogourner

    Scroogourner Admiral Admiral

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    I actually liked that bit in 09 Trek. Kirk is even eating an apple in the simulation, mirroring the TWOK scene quoted above.
     
  14. Kemaiku

    Kemaiku Admiral Admiral

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    We see little to nothing of Prime Kirk's past from 2233-2263 so there's a hell of a lot of room for speculation, and from the various things we know about him, he was at least very bright and often getting into some form of trouble.
     
  15. CorporalClegg

    CorporalClegg Admiral Admiral

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    At the rate he's going, it's only a matter of time before he remakes the KJV.
     
  16. Kemaiku

    Kemaiku Admiral Admiral

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    Why not, we already have the LCV, which is much better IMO.
     
  17. Crisp Crinkle

    Crisp Crinkle Admiral Admiral

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    I think that STXI's take on the Kobayashi Maru scenario was that Kirk thought that the Klingon ships were ridiculously and unrealistically overpowered. He therefore felt no shame in making light of destroying the contrivances.

    Ya gotta admit: in TWOK, the simulated Enterprise folded like a house of cards under the make-believe Klingon fire. That was something about TWOK that always stuck out to me, from first viewing. In real fights, the TOS Enterprise lasted, shall we say, longer.
     
  18. RJDonner&Blitzen

    RJDonner&Blitzen Idealistic Cynic and Canon Champion Premium Member

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    In TWOK, it was said that Kirk reprogrammed the simulation so that it was possible to save the ship and he was given a commendation for original thinking. Given the theme of Kirk always finding a way out (that revelation was punctuated by a sudden reversal of fortune when all seemed hopeless), it would hopefully be assumed that he reprogrammed the simulation with a clever alternative that the programmers hadn't thought of-- he didn't believe in a no-win scenario. In nuTrek, he simply vandalized the simulation. No original thinking, no imagination, no beating the no-win scenario. It's rather disturbing to think that he would be rewarded for doing something so stupid. I'm amazed that anyone thinks this is what happened in the original universe.

    Sure, they all had their talents and triumphs, but it doesn't change that most of them were characterized in negative contrast to the originals.

    I assume you're talking to me, even though I never bashed characters for flirting and having sexual relationships (this is me, after all :rommie:), but the answer is yes, I did see the first one.
     
  19. Scroogourner

    Scroogourner Admiral Admiral

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    You know what happens when you assume....
     
  20. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

    You realize that by reprogramming the scenario, he would know exactly how to beat it? So all he had to do was wait for a certain event that he programmed into the simulation in order to beat it.

    Kirk may act like a douche when beating it in the 2009 film, but Prime Kirk had no more issue saving the ship because he knew exactly how the scenario he programmed would play out.