It's Over.

Discussion in 'Trek Literature' started by Stoek, Sep 28, 2013.

  1. JeBuS

    JeBuS Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2013
    If my choice is between:

    self-contained, full story, but nothing ever changes
    or
    cliff-hangers, never-ending story, things change

    I'd go with the latter. But if it's like TF:R&D:

    cliff-hangers, partial story, almost nothing changes

    I'd rather have the former. In other words, good writing trumps all.
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2013
  2. OverlordSpock

    OverlordSpock Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2009
    Location:
    The Depths of the Murky Platte River...
    Why the need to continue bashing this book? You've made your opinions quite clear in its review thread. There is no need to continue to rehash this.

    As for the original topic, there are many, MANY books of the self-contained variety that I love. So many of the numbered novels are near and dear to me. However, the reset button at the end of almost each and every one of them drives me up the wall. I would actually rather have an open-ended book with no resolution to the story as long as something changes.

    I don't want characters to become unrecognizable though.

    I'm not sure yet how I feel about Data's "return" in Cold Equations. I understand why it was done the way it was done, but I'm still not sure I can say that it's actually Data.

    I need to be able to see a progression from where the character was to where the character goes and have it actually make sense.
     
  3. Relayer1

    Relayer1 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2011
    Location:
    The Black Country, England
    The Cold Equations trilogy were amongst my favourite novels in all Treklit. I don't really care if it is quite the character that you refer to. I love what has been done with them and it's close enough for me...
     
  4. Greg Cox

    Greg Cox Admiral Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2004
    Location:
    Oxford, PA
    Don't worry. I've got at least two more "self-contained" books in the works. :)
     
  5. RandyS

    RandyS Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2007
    Location:
    Randyland
    See though, I don't see it as an "either/or" situation. Like I said, I am enjoying what the novels are currently doing, I just wish we could have more of a balance between the two concepts. The TNG era novels can continue to do the "after the series" books they're doing, while at the same time, give us the occasional novel set within their series, like TOS is currently doing. Likewise, the TOS line could occasionally do a book in the movie era, the 14 years in between TMP and KHAN, etc.

    There's no reason why things need to be all one thing or all the other.
     
  6. JeBuS

    JeBuS Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2013
    I... didn't think I was. I was using it as an example of an exceptional case. There were others who used other books as examples, so why call me out on it?
     
  7. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2001
    It's 12 years between TMP and TWOK. The Okudachron's rather odd 2271 placement for TMP was subsequently disproven by VGR: "Q2" establishing that Kirk's 5-year mission ended in 2270. Since TMP is at least two and a half years later, it's now accepted as taking place in 2273. TWOK's 2285 placement is problematical in itself (15 years after "Space Seed" should be 2282), but it's been referenced by so many books now that we're stuck with it.
     
  8. Reanok

    Reanok Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2002
    That's great news Greg I like self contained StarTrek stories . I wish there were some Tng and Ds9 books that were self contained stories that would take place during the tv series, There are a lot of untold stories . I like the the 24th century tng era books having storyarcs too but it's also nice to have stand alone books to be in the mix too.
     
  9. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    May 10, 2005
    Location:
    The visitor's bullpen
    There's nothing "over". That's a load of crap. There's room for all kinds of stories. And the rather ominous title of "The Fall" notwithstanding, the Federation isn't "over", either.

    That being said, it may not be over, but it may be Oveur:

    [yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrRdy4BAYp0[/yt]
     
  10. TheUsualSuspect

    TheUsualSuspect Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2011
    Location:
    Reseda, CA
    I'm actually hoping we'll see Data in a novel again soon. I'd like to see some exploration of the questions about whether he is in fact the same Data, and how he may be different from the original.
     
  11. TJ Sinclair

    TJ Sinclair Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2000
    Location:
    There and back again...
    Why can't we have both types of novels in the 24th century? I really do enjoy the scope of books like Typhon Pact, Cold Equations, and (hopfully) The Fall, but I wouldn't mind a good old fashioned planet/alien/mission-of-the-week style adventure for the TNG or DS9 crews every now and then.

    To me, Titan started out as a good mix of both. Developing character threads continuing across more-or-less episodic plots within their greater mission of exploring the Beta Quadrant. But Titan has certainly lost a step or two over the last few novels. I remember Christopher saying in another thread that he and Titan seem to have "diverged paths" or something to that effect, which is a shame. Titan's original exploration focus seemed well-served by Christopher's more (relatively-speaking) "hard science" approach. Orion's Hounds still remains my favorite Titan book, and one of my favorite 24th century books, period.

    As for the 23rd century, while I enjoy TOS novels in general, can we try for a little balance there, too? A couple of 5YM stories, a couple of movie-era tales perhaps with a little interconnectivity or not, maybe a book moving into the Lost Era with Spock, Chekov, Sulu and Uhura... Getting 5YM repeatedly, for months at a stretch, wears a little thin for me.

    I realize we haven't been getting two books a month like the old days for quite some time now, so there isn't as much room on the schedule, but I really, really would like to see things mixed up a bit more. But my desires are apparently at odds with Pocket's editorial and marketing philosophies these days.

    If IDW's Trek comics were even half as well-written as DC's, Wildstorm's and Marvel's late 90s books' were, I'd be happy to get my "episodic" dose there, but on the whole, current Trek comics are horrendously bad.

    I just want more variety than we've been getting. But that's just me, and I realize that my own personal tastes don't amount to a hill of beans in this crazy world.
     
  12. Jodmos

    Jodmos Ensign Newbie

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2007
    When I read the title, i thought that someone else has become frustrated about the current state of trek lit too.
    That's the key and the reason why i dropped the DS9 Relaunch.

    Kira as a Vedek? Sisko 'resigning' as the emissary and becoming a 08/15 Starfleet Captain? In one word: ridiculous

    I don't mind character progress and i fully appreciate that the writers want to use the whole playground. But these developments are not authentic. That's like Kirk dropping command of the Enterprise and pursuing a scientific career - nonsense.

    And the events in the other novels ... :wtf: especially the Jesus-, ahm, Janeway-story and 'Cold Equations' are way over-the-top.

    So, my personal wish is to have stories that are interconnected, show character development but are not totally distorting the characters.

    Just my 2c.
     
  13. veritech

    veritech Ensign Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2007
    I've enjoyed the "cold war"-esque adventures of late, but I'm ready to get back to weird science adventures in Trek . . .
     
  14. Paris

    Paris Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2008
    Location:
    In the future's past
    David Mack's recent TNG trilogy, Cold Equations, may fit your bill. David McIntee's TNG: Indistinguishable from Magic may also be right up your alley. They aren't what you'd call "cold war"-esque stories. Lots of fun science adventure stuff :techman:
     
  15. Slyvon

    Slyvon Lieutenant Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2013
    Location:
    Cincinnati
    As a new reader, this is a very interesting discussion. What drew me towards the ST novels was questions like "So what happened to Picard?" But what got me reading was when someone literally handed me the Destiny trilogy saying "This guy blows up the universe."

    What's interesting is this is the same discussion I've seen before on the message boards for that *other* Star universe. For years the books all seemed to be the same. Some large threat or super weapon that involves the big three heroes coming together to stop it. But with "New Jedi Order" major characters were killed, and the universe was greatly changed. People were very angry but boy did they buy the books! Seemed liked people who hated the series were the first to buy a copy to trash review them!

    If someone was looking for pocket stories I would highly recommend the Voyager relaunch by Kirsten Beyer. They're happily back zipping through the universe far away from anything called Typhon! Great stories that generally conclude with each novel.
     
  16. TJ Sinclair

    TJ Sinclair Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2000
    Location:
    There and back again...
    "Does anyone remember when we used to be explorers?" - Captain Picard, Insurrection

    That's pretty much how I feel about the 24th century in general now. Political intrigue from DS9 is what I want and expect, and I recognize that the Enterprise is going to be involved in it, too -- at times. But I would still like to see her out there, occasionally, too.

    And if you're not going to do it with TNG books anymore, then at least let Titan be what it was supposed to be -- a return to the sense of exploration and discovery that is the core of Star Trek.

    And please... just once... can we see the Aventine doing something like that, too? Most advanced ship in the fleet, and all she's been doing is playing diplomatic courier.
     
  17. jpv2000

    jpv2000 Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2012
    Location:
    Georgia, United States
    I agree. Especially about Titan and the Aventine, my two favorite 24th century ships.
     
  18. mickmike

    mickmike Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2009
    Location:
    far beyond the stars
    I have to admit that I've been pretty disappointed by the Typhon Pact story arc as a whole. I haven't enjoyed a Trek book since 'Synthesis'. After the epic sheer destructiveness of Destiny, which i wholeheartedly enjoyed I was looking forward to a return to exploration based stories. This was briefly done by Titan but it quickly got caught up in Typhon Pact shenanigans.

    I'm just tired of continual conflict. There is enough of it going on in real life that i don't need to have a string of books dedicated to it.

    Bring back the stories of new worlds and new civilisations. Titan and Aventine need to be WAY OUT THERE, seeing wonders that no one has ever seen.
     
  19. Avro Arrow

    Avro Arrow Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2003
    Location:
    Right where I want to be
    I dunno... SF seems to still only have a limited number of QSD ships, so it almost makes sense in-universe that some of the Vesta class are going to be utilized as rapid-response troubleshooters. We have seen some of the Vestas exploring (Quirinal and Esquiline), but Starfleet's going to want to keep some of them on-hand for emergencies.

    Perhaps you'll find Seekers more your cup of tea! :)
     
  20. Relayer1

    Relayer1 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2011
    Location:
    The Black Country, England
    And I'm sick of new worlds and new civilisations stories : TOS, TNG, Voyager and Enterprise on TV, several hundred novels...it's the political intrigue that's making Treklit so interesting thesedays. Titan is one of my least favourite titles for that very reason. There's no need to waste the Aventine in that manner. Titan and Voyager novels fit the new worlds brief and Seekers is coming soon too. ;)

    My point is, there is already plenty of both types of story - we both appreciate opposite ends of the Trek spectrum, but we're both catered for...