It's about parallel worlds, not ripping off (spoilers)

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies XI+' started by Vigilance, May 23, 2013.

  1. I am not Spock

    I am not Spock Commodore Commodore

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    I kind of like the idea that no matter what universe you are in, some things are destined to happen, some things are predetermined to play out similarly. Obviously Orci, Kurtzman, and Lindelof find this parallel universe idea interesting too. A similar thing happened in Lost, and Fringe as well
     
  2. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    I agree with you, and think they were definitely going for a hybrid tribute/Fringe-style alternate reality variation of the scene (while at the same time being very moving in it's own right). It's also a continuation of the strange (when viewed with TOS in mind) coincidences of the last movie.
     
  3. Admiral Buzzkill

    Admiral Buzzkill Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I never expected that; it was so clearly not the intent.
     
  4. sj4iy

    sj4iy Commander Red Shirt

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    I think of it as waves. No matter if the waves are small or large, fast or slow- they all crash onto the same beach. In the first movie, when Kirk and Spock finally gave each other a chance, they realized how much they respected each other. Kirk was destined to be the Captain and Spock is first officer. It just works out better that way because Kirk is more flexible than Spock and can take advice that he thinks is better than his own. So I liked it, too.
     
  5. propita

    propita Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The whole point of an alternate timeline as the basis for storytelling is to see the differences in the timelines. To ignore one of them defeats that purpose. The nuTimeline must be seen in comparison to the Prime one, so there must be some overlap. Here, we have overlap of characters and general story (Kirk et al, Star Fleet, etc)--but the changed details are parts of the point of the story having alternate timelines!

    I don't mind Khan being in this film, and using many of the same alien species as before, because the timeline only changed 25 (well, now what? 27?) years ago. Most of human history is the same.

    It seems foolish to throw out all that is known about the ST universe just for the last 27 years. We've already had big changes due to Nero's incursion: millions have died (the Kelvin, nearly everyone on Vulcan, and some on Earth); Star Fleet, and likely others in the Alpha Quadrant, and become more militaristic; technology advanced faster than before; etc.

    For all we know, Vulcans could be having a cultural schism between those determined to maintain traditional Vulcan culture and those willing to accommodate changes due to being such a minority and seeing what how their lengthy debate contributed to Nero. And you have Spock Prime surely having some input, likely more "carefully steering conversations and general opinion" than outright comments. And nuSpock being a more shining example of somewhat-more-emotional-Vulcans than he was even as Spock Prime.


    As for Edith Keeler, but for Kirk's presence, she WAS going to die. It was him saving her that changed history. We saw that she died crossing a street to get to him. While some may argue that it was his presence that caused her death, the fact that she died before they ever got to the Guardian shows that she was going to die but for Kirk's presence. The details might shift a bit, but she was gonna die.
     
  6. M'Sharak

    M'Sharak Definitely Herbert. Maybe. Moderator

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    And then, one day later, Wheaton went on to say:

     
  7. brian577

    brian577 Captain Captain

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    Yes, I'm sure he came to love it once he rewrote in his own vision...
     
  8. sj4iy

    sj4iy Commander Red Shirt

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    Who doesn't? Is there anyone out there who seriously hasn't thought "I wish there was this in it" or has come up with ideas for their own storylines (not necessarily fanfiction, just something you'd think would make a great story). And not just with Star Trek, but with everything? I love taking inspiration from movies, books and shows to create my own stories- they spark imagination. Why do kids go out and pretend to be heroes? Did they rigidly stick to the script? No, they make it what they want it to be- and the best writers out there do the same with their own stories. No one grows up wanting to be something without inspiration from another source.
     
  9. M'Sharak

    M'Sharak Definitely Herbert. Maybe. Moderator

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    Not sure why that feels like you're taking a swipe at me, but—regardless of any other issues which might be involved—any filmmaker who doesn't bring their own vision to a project doesn't belong in the director's chair.
     
  10. hiddenderek

    hiddenderek Ensign Newbie

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    This. I don't get why people think the engine room scene was meaningless. It had a huge sense of purpose to me. It wasn't just a rehash for nostalgia, it had a huge role in character development. I also don't understand how people didn't realize the similarities between Kirk's standoff with the Vengeance and Kirk's dad's standoff with the Narada. Kirk was willing to sacrifice his life to save his crew and with that he finally lived up to pikes dare and finally earned the title of captain.That was the meaning of the sound byte from Pike as kirk woke up. Also, kirk and spock finally realized their friendship's potential and how much they had to learn from each other.

    This all came from Kirk sacrificing his life. It was an essential part of the plot of the movie. Now, the whole reenactment scene with Spock yelling "KHANN!"? I think that role reversal was built in to show the differences between parallel realities even in huge events that cannot be avoided, as what sj4iy said.