Is worf a Federation Citizen

Discussion in 'The Next Generation' started by WesleysDisciple, Feb 17, 2013.

  1. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    He refers to them as "mother", "father" and "parents" in Family.
     
  2. LobsterAfternoon

    LobsterAfternoon Commander Red Shirt

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    For what it's worth, Ron Moore said in one of his AOL chats that Nog was probably a Federation citizen. Granted, it wasn't on screen, but it's a similar situation to Worf (species that's not a member of the Federation but individual who is serving in Starfleet.
     
  3. Sci

    Sci Admiral Admiral

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    That may be. But the concept of citizenship is a necessary development when you have neighboring polities whose populaces may cross borders and otherwise intermingle -- which is certainly the case for the Star Trek Universe. You have to have some way to define "ours" and "theirs" when you have separate polities; it's inherent to the definition of a polity.
     
  4. Timo

    Timo Admiral Admiral

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    One would think that different priorities are at work today already. Leadership positions in practical life are given more often to strangers than to one's "own" folks: business leaders virtually never emerge from the ranks of the company they are supposed to lead. That's another human "necessity" at work - bitter jealousy, and a strong faith in grass being greener on the other side (even if all other change is frightening)... Outsourcing of leadership is found to be practical and conductive of harmony and confidence in the leaders. Heck, Peru imported a president recently... And never mind the thousands of leaders who have imported themselves to the throne by force.

    In "Wolf in the Fold", Argelians readily outsourced their security to Rigel and other foreign worlds, and nothing hinted at these prominent de facto planetary leaders having to assume Argelian citizenship in order to boss around the locals. It's not a case of distribution of labor within the Federation, either, as neither Argelius nor Rigel II was indicated to be a Federation world. And even if it were, we'd still have a clear example of the people of the future just not caring.

    The pair of words "Federation citizen" appears often enough in modern Trek, yes. In most cases, the context is one of seeking legal protection (O'Brien in "Tribunal", Bashir in "Inquisition", John Doe in "Transfigurations"). But the context is also one of getting none, as the interstellar "partners" of the UFP demonstrate no respect for the supposed rights associated with UFP citizenship. Then there's the trope of the rebellious colony: UFP citizenship just doesn't appear to be a popular thing to hold, and rather paradoxically the keenest adherents turn out to be the Maquis, when in need...

    Not in "Heart of Stone" yet:

    Whether you have to get the citizenship before you start serving in Starfleet, we never really learn.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  5. Ensign_Redshirt

    Ensign_Redshirt Commodore Commodore

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    Of course Worf was a citizen.

    Given that he wasn't a "natural-born citizen" I doubt that he was eligible to run for the presidency though. :p
     
  6. Sci

    Sci Admiral Admiral

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    Are you referring to Alberto Fujimori? He was born in Peru; his parents had emigrated to Peru four years before his birth. He does hold Japanese citizenship through his parents, but he was also born a Peruvian citizen; he wasn't "imported." (Also, he was first elected in 1990; that's hardly "recent.")
     
  7. Pavonis

    Pavonis Commodore Commodore

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    I agree, but I suggest the concept of "citizenship" for some alien societies may be no more sophisticated than "same species" or "different species".
     
  8. indolover

    indolover Fleet Captain

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    Worf had no known living relatives after the attack on Khitomer. So as part of the Rozhenko family, he was a Federation citizen by default. Just as in a US family who adopts a (say) Chinese orphan.
     
  9. indolover

    indolover Fleet Captain

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    Yet Mr. Moore must be aware that in his own show, Sisko patently stated Nog was not a Federation citizen.

    Worf must be a naturalised citizen, and being a Federation citizen per se is not required to serve in Starfleet. Even in some countries in real world, citizens can serve in other nation-states' armed forces. As a Commonwealth country, an Australian can serve in the UK armed forces if s/he opted to.
     
  10. indolover

    indolover Fleet Captain

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    Mogh was chosen as the "traitor" since the High Council did not expect Worf to be "Klingon" enough to pose a challenge. They essentially thought the House of Mogh was defunct since they presumed Kurn was the son of Lorgh.

    My understanding of Worf accepting discommendation is that it was the best compromise available. K'mpec had no civil war to deal with, Duras wouldn't be dishonoured and his family would be in good standing, and Worf would be out of the way and could still resume his Starfleet career.
     
  11. indolover

    indolover Fleet Captain

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    Maybe anybody born in a Federation member world would be automatically a citizen. That said, as there is a Federation Charter/Bill of Rights (of which Picard cited the "Seventh Guarantee" as being an important part), there must be some provision to determine who is subject to this, and the remedies should it be violated.
     
  12. Sci

    Sci Admiral Admiral

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    I don't disagree, but the Federation is itself comprised of so many different species -- and seems to attract so much immigration from non-Federation worlds -- that it would almost have to develop a legal concept of citizenship that's more sophisticated than that.

    * * *

    Re: Nog. I see no reason why Nog could not have acquired Federation citizenship some time after entering the Academy -- and I see no reason why Nog couldn't have continued serving in Starfleet without obtaining Federation citizenship, provided the Federation and Ferengi Alliance never became enemies.

    Also, I don't think the Federation would require its Presidents to only be natural-born citizens. Too many worlds are likely joining the Federation all the time for that to be practical; you'd have a situation where an entire planet full of potential Federation Presidents would be discriminated against for the highest office for upwards of thirty years after a planet joins the UFP. It seems more rational to me to hypothesize that the Federation Presidency is legally open to any Federation citizen, irrelevant of whether they are natural-born or naturalized citizens.
     
  13. Pavonis

    Pavonis Commodore Commodore

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    As long as 50,000 years, if species like the Horta are members of the Federation. The entire Federation could be a distant memory before the first natural-born Horta citizens would be eligible for UFP offices!
     
  14. Sci

    Sci Admiral Admiral

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    Excellent point!

    The hypothesis that all Federation citizens who have reached the age of majority for their species are eligible to serve as President seems much more fair to me.
     
  15. LobsterAfternoon

    LobsterAfternoon Commander Red Shirt

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    indo, sorry, I should've been more clear, Moore said that in reference to Nog after he graduated from the Academy.
     
  16. Captain Verata

    Captain Verata Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    I am pretty sure if the Federation had a natural born citizen requirement, which I am not saying there is, they would apply the natural born citizenship retroactively to all natural born citizens of a newly joined planet. That would keep any, if any, benefits of the natural born citizen requirement and not needlessly discriminate potential Federation Presidents.
     
  17. Sci

    Sci Admiral Admiral

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    A fair hypothesis. Though I don't really see what the point of the natural-born requirement would be in that case; if you're willing to let the citizens of newly-joined worlds into the club, why not just expand it to any adult Federation citizen?

    If, say, Worf were to decide he wanted to run for Federation President? I see no reason why someone who has served the Federation for decades, has fought and sacrificed for it, and has proven his loyalty to the Federation time and again, should be denied such an opportunity just because he was born on Qo'noS.
     
  18. Timo

    Timo Admiral Admiral

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    And what if the UFP annexed Qo'noS at some point? Would the locals then become "natural-born" Feds overnight or not?

    Would there exist an internal hierarchy within the UFP as the result, with "senior" worlds having a greater claim to governing than "junior" ones?

    The "natural-born" claim would seem to be more trouble than worth for an empire that wants to expand yet in a benevolent, egalitarian manner where expansion is through carrot rather than stick.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  19. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    A Horta president...that would, literally, rock. :D
     
  20. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

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    But would Worf have to be a "Federation Citizen" to be a part of the Rozhenko family? Adopting a child from a foreign country doesn't in of itself make the child a American citizen, that's a seperate legal procedure.

    You don't have to be an American citizen to be a enlist member of the US Armed Forces. Starfleet might have something similar for it's officer. I didn't get the impression that Ro was anything but Bajorian.

    :)
     

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