Is worf a Federation Citizen

Discussion in 'Star Trek: The Next Generation' started by WesleysDisciple, Feb 17, 2013.

  1. WesleysDisciple

    WesleysDisciple Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Hes served in starfleet, He was raised by a pair of federation citizens.

    He wasnt born in the federation.

    I think its a valid concern
     
  2. robau

    robau Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Worf is a sleeper agent of the Empire.
     
  3. Sephiroth

    Sephiroth Vice Admiral Admiral

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    he holds dual citizenship, at least during periods when he isn't being shunned by the high council
     
  4. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Are adopted Chinese children citizens of the US?

    Worf was adopted by a human family as a small child, I can't imagine by the time he's in his 40's he hasn't been granted Earth citizenship.
     
  5. Ríu ríu chíu

    Ríu ríu chíu Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I'm sure that Worf automatically became a citizen of the Federation when the Rozhenkos adopted him as a child. Isn't that part of the legal process associated with adoption - you become a citizen of the country that your adoptive parents are from? In any case, I'm sure the Federation treats it as such.
     
  6. heavy lids

    heavy lids Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I'd have to say yes. He serves in the Federation military and he was raised by Federation citizens.

    I can't remember what episode of TNG it is, but I remember Wesley and Picard having a conversation and Wesley says something along the lines of, "Was this before the Klingons joined the Federation?". Was this a writers error? I don't think the Klingons ever became part of the Federation.
     
  7. Ríu ríu chíu

    Ríu ríu chíu Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    ^ That line was written before anyone knew what to do with the Klingons. The continuity hadn't been established yet. There was also one episode where Q implies that the Klingons were *conquered* by the Federation, which is also obviously not true...but that was one possible angle the writers were considering as well as this one.
     
  8. C.E. Evans

    C.E. Evans Admiral Admiral

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    That line could be viewed in regards to the Khitomer Accords and/or the apparent post-Narendra III alliance between the Federation and the Klingons, IMO.
     
  9. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Yeah, after the incident Picard describes, the Klingons could have joined the Federation... in maintaining Farspace Starbase Earhart.

    As for citizenship, it's far from certain that the Klingon Empire even recognizes the concept. Klingons are Klingons - they don't hold "citizenships" or other such alien nonsense. If they are caught doing something against Klingon law or tradition, Klingons will come and judge them no matter what, where or with whom.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  10. Ríu ríu chíu

    Ríu ríu chíu Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Yet in "Sins of the Father", it's said that Worf is safe from Klingon justice as long as he's in the Federation.
     
  11. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    ...But perhaps only because it's so damn expensive to send assassins all the way into the heart of the UFP? :devil:

    Seriously speaking, when K'Mpec says "your life in the Federation would not be affected by this judgement", he's apparently simply saying that Worf will be a sentenced criminal but the sentence will not involve any elements that would significantly inconvenience Worf's everyday affairs. It's not as if Worf would have been put to death inside the Klingon Empire, either, had he done what K'Mpec is speaking of and accepted his father's smearing. He'd be the son of a dishonorable traitor, then, and forced to compensate for that if he ever wanted to be somebody himself (the way Klag compensated by denying his father in "A Matter of Honor"), but none of this would affect his UFP Starfleet career.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  12. Ríu ríu chíu

    Ríu ríu chíu Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Exactly. Like I said, Worf is safe from Klingon justice as long as he remains in Starfleet and within Federation jurisdiction. Therefore, Klingon justice can't touch him there.
     
  13. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    No, he will feel the full wrath of that justice. It just won't amount to much, not in the lifestyle he has chosen.

    It's a case of a trillionaire getting a fine of half a million dollars, or a quadriplegic being ordered to house arrest, is all.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  14. BennyRussel

    BennyRussel Commander Red Shirt

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    Right around the corner. Just across the track.
    I don't think Worf was ever adopted. He was raised by Mr. and Mrs. Rozhenko, but I am sure he referred to them at different times as "Foster Parents" and "Parents"

    AFAIK there was no formal adoption, which is why he refers to himself as "Son of Mogh" and not "Son of Sergey"

    Nevertheless, to respond to the OP's question, I think Worf is a UFP citizen simply because he chose to be and he agreed to join Starfleet and adhere to their principles and rules of life.

    He also retained his Klingon Empire citizen status when he wasn't blackballed.
     
  15. Sci

    Sci Admiral Admiral

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    Worf would have to be a Federation citizen in order to serve as Federation Ambassador to the Klingon Empire at the end of DS9.
     
  16. Pavonis

    Pavonis Commodore Commodore

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    Just to be contrary -

    Why would "citizenship" mean the same thing in the 24th century as it does now? And why would it mean anything to Worf? He's a Klingon. As Timo points out, what does "citizen" mean in Klingon society? Either you're a Klingon, or you're not. If you are, you're subject to Klingon laws, regardless of where you live or what some form in some computer says.

    The UFP might have a definition of "citizen", but we never heard of it, did we? Citizens of the Federation were pretty much defined by their species. If you're a Vulcan, you're a citizen of the Federation. If you're not a member of a species that was a member society of the UFP, what are you? Can you be a citizen of the UFP? Are there naturalization procedures to follow? We never heard of them. No one was ever identified as a Federation citizen that wasn't obviously a member of the known Federation member societies. Can Worf be a citizen of the UFP? To Klingons, renouncing citizenship could be like pretending you don't have forehead ridges - it's impossible to deny the existence of ridges, and trying to do so would indicate some sort of delusion on the part of the denier.

    As for requiring citizenship to hold an office for the UFP, why would that be necessary? I reject the notion that everything about the UFP is descended directly from the US legal structure. Particularly when dealing with the Klingons, who may not have a notion of "citzenship", why would the UFP worry about the citizenship of the ambassador to the Klingons? Perhaps the UFP regularly uses intermediaries in diplomatic relations with the Klingon Empire - we don't know that Curzon Dax, or Trills in general, are UFP members, yet there was no doubt that Dax acted as an ambassador for the UFP to the Klingons.

    What of the other large empires of the Alpha Quadrant? Both the Romulans and the Cardassians were known to have subject races - the Remans and the Bajorans. What was the legal status of those species? Were they Romulan and Cardassian citizens (respectively) or just subjugated races with no legal standing in their respective societies?

    It's too bad the topic of citizenship didn't come up more often in some of the Trek shows, as it would be an interesting to see how a multispecies interstellar polity would treat the matter.
     
  17. Sci

    Sci Admiral Admiral

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    We hear about Federation citizenship all the time throughout TNG and DS9, actually.

    I see no reason to assume the Federation ever required Worf to renounce Klingon citizenship. For that matter, Worf may have legally renounced Klingon citizenship by UFP law, yet have that renunciation go unrecognized by the Empire.

    Uh, that's pretty much a function of every single country ever. You can't be President of Ireland without holding Irish citizenship. You can't be an MK in Israel without holding Israeli citizenship. You can't be a judge in Canada without holding Canadian citizenship. Etc.

    That's not the U.S. That's a basic rule of civilization. You can't hold office in a state without being a citizen of that state.
     
  18. Pavonis

    Pavonis Commodore Commodore

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    A basic rule of human civilization. :rolleyes: Must all Trek aliens be psychologically identical to humans, too? Bad enough they're barely distinguishable from humans; now they must possess the exact same legal structures, too??
     
  19. Sci

    Sci Admiral Admiral

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    I'm sorry, but the concept of citizenship is pretty much an inevitability of any civilization that comes into contact with other civilizations. Any such civilization will need some legal basis to separate "ours" from "theirs" -- especially when individual members of biological species start the inevitable process of crossing borders to live within the territory of one rather than the other. Worf is a prime example; if he's going to help make policy for the Federation, then he needs to be a Federate. He needs to be part of the club, and he needs to hold a status which makes that official. Hence, citizenship.

    Concepts like citizenship evolved in real life because of necessity, not because of a cultural idiosyncrasy. Criticizing the application of the idea of citizenship to the interstellar stage of ST is like criticizing evolution as being insufficiently creative because so many creatures evolved bilateral symmetry or eyeballs. It's a function of evolutionary necessity, pure and simple.
     
  20. Pavonis

    Pavonis Commodore Commodore

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    The aliens of Trek are insufficiently creative, Sci. You know it, too. Neither citizenship nor bilateral symmetry are evolutionary necessities.