Is WB simply afraid of Wonder Woman?

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by Ian Keldon, Nov 24, 2012.

  1. Ian Keldon

    Ian Keldon Fleet Captain

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    I was bored and reading one of those "10" lists online and they did one called "10 Superheroes who don't need their own movie". They had WW on the list.

    This is what they said about her:

    Agree? Disagree?

    What would it be that they're afraid of? That she's a feminist icon? That she's heavily mixed up in Greek mythology? Hey, it worked for Hercules and Xena, so why NOT WW?
     
  2. Gotham Central

    Gotham Central Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Well I doubt very seriously that DC wants WW to in anyway be compared to Xena. They would want the character taken more seriously than that.

    The real issue is that DC/WB and Marvel for that matter, are not particularly confident in the ability of ANY of their female characters to successfully carry a film franchise. DC already struggles with main characters not named Superman or Batman. The feeling in Hollywood is that female superheroes simply do not have the built in audience that the male characters have.

    At this point DC REALLY does not want a Wonder Woman movie to fail.

    I think that the one thing that WW has going for her that most others do not is that she is one of the few standalone female super heroes whose success or failure is not linked to a male counterpart.

    Supergirl, Powergirl, Batgirl, Batwoman, Catwoman, Huntress etc are all dependent on people buying into the world created for Batman or Superman.

    As to the top 10 list, I agree with most of them. The thing is that many DC characters work best as part of a team. Conner Kent/Kon-El/Superboy is one of my favorite DC characters, but he works best when he is not alone...if only because it helps to play off the fact that he feels alone. Likewise, Aquaman could wok well, but I think he'd be better off proving himself in a JL movie first.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2012
  3. Kegg

    Kegg Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Like Iron Dude and Space Ring Guy?

    Because I'd never heard of those characters before they got movies, and I'm pretty sure Iron Man's success owed a lot to having Robert Downey Jr. in the lead visibly having a good time, being sold as a fun blockbuster with a bankable cast and so on (and I still think this reflects my befuddlement over the existence of a Green Lantern movie better than anything I could actually say).

    Conversely, I did know who Wonder Woman is, if only by cultural osmosis.

    The logic has nothing to do with brand recognition and everything to do with the belief that people won't go see action movies starring women.
     
  4. Professor Zoom

    Professor Zoom Vice Admiral Admiral

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    It might have more to do with female driven action movies don't do all that well at the box office. So, they might not be willing to risk 100 million dollars on a WW movie.
     
  5. AvBaur

    AvBaur Captain Captain

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    Like The Hunger Games, the Twilight saga, or all those James Cameron movies? Yeah, nobody went to see those.
     
  6. Alidar Jarok

    Alidar Jarok Everything in moderation but moderation Moderator

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    You never heard of Iron Man and Green Lantern? I've probably read five comics in my life and I heard of both.
     
  7. Brolan

    Brolan Commodore Commodore

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    Those were not action movies. They were romance movies with action elements. If they can create a romance for WW they may have something.
     
  8. stonester1

    stonester1 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    James Cameron's movies are chick flicks?

    News to me.
     
  9. Greg Cox

    Greg Cox Admiral Premium Member

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    Twilight, yes, but I'm not sure I'd call The Hunger Games a romance movie. That was more of a dystopian science fiction story with the obligatory romantic subplot.

    If The Hunger Games is a romance, then so is Logan's Run, Brazil, Blade Runner, and Fahrenheit 451 . . . .
     
  10. Kegg

    Kegg Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Did you know Tintin and Asterix though?

    'cause they're huge over here.

    Well he's right at least Cameron has made action films starring women... decades ago. But I'm not talking about whether or not successful action films with female leads exist (because there are) but that Hollywood believes they would not make the money they want on those pictures.
     
  11. Gaith

    Gaith Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Hollywood is afraid of movies starring women in general. Take a look at the domestic 2011 top twelve flicks: none primarily star a woman, and only one, the Twilight movie, primarily co-stars a woman (I'm not counting Hermione as a primary star here, as she's one part of a trio at most, and Harry really is the primary star, so it's not an even trio, either). You have to go to #13-14 for The Help and Bridesmaids. 2010 is a little better in that regard, with Alice in Wonderland at #2 and Twilight and Tangled at #4 and #10, but after Alice you have to go all the way down to #22 for another movie primarily starring a woman (Salt). 2012 so far has Hunger Games and Brave at #2 and #5, and Twilight at #10. In other words, primarily women-powered movies make up about a fifth of the top ten on a good year. It's also worth noting that, Bridesmaids and part of The Help side, pretty much all of the "women" in question are teenage girls rather than mature adult ladies.

    San Francisco Chronicle critic Mick Lasalle often talks about a sociological reason for this imbalance: women in relationships are more likely to want to "get out of the house and do something" than men, so they often defer to men on movie choices, who tend to pick male-centric flicks, which is why you see considerably more women-centric TV shows than films.

    As for Wonder Woman, I've argued before that superpowered women in primary leading roles present a particular challenge to writers in terms of crafting compelling emotional arcs. The most badass leading ladies, such as Sarah Connor in T2, Ripley in Aliens and even Katniss in Hunger Games tend to be strongly defined by maternal/familial protective instincts. The Underworld and Resident Evil series have been notable exceptions, but the field remains a risky one.
     
  12. M'rk son of Mogh

    M'rk son of Mogh Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Is it possible to make a WW movie without a HUGE budget? (Remember District 9? Chronicle? What the heck is wrong with Hollywood, learn to stop wasting money!!!!!)

    I think that's a bigger problem than anything. Cut the budget and make a good movie. They might be surprised or, at the very least if it doesn't perform up to whatever stupid expectations WB has, it won't kill their finances.

    Movies DON'T need a budget of 150 million!
     
  13. AvBaur

    AvBaur Captain Captain

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    It's baffling, though, how Hollywood executives still seem to remember the failures of Aeon Flux, Ultraviolet, and the like, but manage to ignore the successes of numerous female-led genre movies.
     
  14. Gaith

    Gaith Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Not really. From Catwoman to Elektra to Columbiana, there've been as many if not more flops as modest successes, and none have been massive breakout hits a la Iron Man or Thor. The Resident Evil series has been chugging along decently, but it started out as a gamer-backed flick, and few female stars are as willing as Milla to become known as a primarily action/genre star. The Underwold series is another notable exception, but it too is very much a genre product, with little crossover/mainstream appeal.

    Even if modestly budgeted along those lines, however, a Wonder Woman movie would attract a whole lot of free publicity/public interest, thereby creating significant pressure for it to do not just okay, but great. A WW movie doing Resident Evil-style business would almost certainly be seen as a disappointment.

    Anyhow, if the JLA movie actually happens, WW is sure to be in it, so look to her reception there for prospects for any solo outing.
     
  15. Takeru

    Takeru Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    None of them were nearly as good as Iron Man and Thor.

    If they don't trust Wonder Woman to make Avengers money they really should give it a lower budget, just look at Arrow, it's a CW show so it probably has a budget of 20 dollars and a box of bubblegum for special effects.

    Just put a few columns on a beach and in a park in California and pretend it's Themiscyra, the rest of the movie can be filmed in Vancouver. They could probably do a decent Wonder Woman movie for 60 million.
     
  16. Greg Cox

    Greg Cox Admiral Premium Member

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    I doubt the Greco-Roman thing is an issue, given that Hollywood is perfectly comfortable green-lighting 300, Spartacus, Clash of the Titans, The Immortals, etc.
     
  17. AvBaur

    AvBaur Captain Captain

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    Those were a) utterly terrible, and b) pretty low on budget and talent behind the camera, compared to, say, the MCU movies.
    When given the right mix of budget and talent, a Hunger Games-style success should be entirely possible for a female superhero like Wonder Woman. And no, The Hunger Games wasn't a "romance" movie, or at least not any more so than The Amazing Spider-Man.
     
  18. Gaith

    Gaith Vice Admiral Admiral

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    NBC tried that. Didn't work out so good.


    But none of those movies brought such characters into the present day. Marvel had the balls to try such a mashup with Thor; WB didn't with WW. A WW movie would be a challenge and risk with the best producers, which the WB isn't... though it's instructive to note that of the 12 Marvel Studios movies committed to so far, none have primarily starred a woman.


    Also bear in mind this JLA movie has been in the works since '07 at least, when it was fully cast and almost put into production. But with one Nolan Bat-flick to go, the WB decided to produce Man of Steel and Green Lantern as a warm-up to a future JLA instead. So in addition to the female issue and the Greco-Roman issue, the JLA has been a factor in keeping WW offscreen. (The TV fiasco didn't exactly help, either.)
     
  19. Greg Cox

    Greg Cox Admiral Premium Member

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    True. But the Harry Potter movies were crammed with mythological creatures and fantasy elements set in the present-day. Didn't seem to scare audiences away.

    Ditto for GRIMM and ONCE UPON A TIME.

    That's not specifically Greco-Roman, sure, but I'm not sure why Snow White or dragons in modern times would be less of a stretch than an Amazon princess . . .
     
  20. Alidar Jarok

    Alidar Jarok Everything in moderation but moderation Moderator

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    Asterix no, but I read Tintin as a kid. Although American culture is generally more available in Europe than French culture is in America.

    And I think the mention of "built in audience" has to do with a built in audience in the largest movie market, which still remains the United States (even if it is diminishing).
     

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