Is the USS Vengeance more powerful than the Enterprise E?

Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by Austin 3:16, Sep 17, 2013.

  1. Lance

    Lance Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I'll throw this one out there: is the Enterprise E in particular the strongest starship in that lineage? I've always wondered if the accepted conceit that each Enterprise is bigger, better and meaner than the last one is something of a misnomer. Especially in regards to the 1701-D and 1701-E. I like to imagine that the Galaxy Class and the Sovereign Class are reasonably equally matched, albeit constructed for different mission statements and therefore with their own pros and cons.

    As to the OP's question...... no, IMO Vengeance is not as powerful as 24th century starships. It appears to be ultra powerful because we have only the technology of the alt-Enterprise to compare it against. But in practical terms I don't doubt it would be technologically inferior to the 24th century ships.

    Having said that..... it's clear that Admiral Marcus has "pimped up" the Vengeance considerably, possibly using secret technology developed personally for him. So while it might not be as powerful as 24th century starships..... it might be less self-sustainable than the Enterprise D or E which were designed to be ships with a long term space mission..... it can achieve many things that neither of those starships can. Especially in a battle scenario.
     
  2. Mycroft Maxwell

    Mycroft Maxwell Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Enterprise E is definatly much more powerful than the Ent-D. The Enterprise E was one of the designs actually designed for the Borg incursion (The first one that came much sooner than starfleet expected), then later paid off during the 2nd borg incursion. Thing has 12, (later 16 phaser strips in Nemesis-added to the nacelle pylons). And I remember them being several types higher class than the Ent-D's. Lets not forget that Quantum Torpedo launcher, than the double torpedo launcher beneath the deflector that can fire 12 torpedoes at once (Counted them in nemesis). And before we talk about how poorly the Enterprise faired against the Scimitar, listen to Worfs tactical analysis of the Scimitar. I think That ship held its own considering what it was up against. As for insurection...the insides were blowing up, but you never hear anyone say the shields were lower than 60%. And the Enterprise pwned that borg cube.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2013
  3. Lance

    Lance Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    ^ Well yes, it's a much better battleship than the D. But my point really was, in practical terms it might be worse in other ways, like in terms of it's science labs or stellar cartography or something, leading to a kind of equalibrium with the D on a par-to-par basis. Better armaments do not necessarily equal a 'better' vessel.

    I like to imagine the Sovereign and Galaxy class as being peers, rather than one simply being 'better' than the other. They could be equally matched, but just in different areas aimed at different mission statements. :)
     
  4. bbjegglebells

    bbjegglebells Admiral Admiral

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    ^Could you give some examples of what the Galaxy Class can do that the Sovereign can't? Other than the Galaxy's ability to separate, where I think the Sovereign can out maneuvering the Saucer while dealing with the Stardrive, I don't see much else the Galaxy would be better at.
     
  5. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    Screw that, can someone give me an example of what the Enterprise's D and E can do that Voyager can't? Or even Enterprise NX-01 (beyond holodeck episodes)? Even the Defiant sprouted shuttlebays when the story needed them. They're all the same really.
     
  6. bbjegglebells

    bbjegglebells Admiral Admiral

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    ^If you think the NX-01 can stand up against the E then have fun with that.
     
  7. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    If it has enough main characters on board, it will survive somehow.
     
  8. M.A.C.O.

    M.A.C.O. Commodore Commodore

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    Voyager: the economy sized Galaxy glass ship.

    The Defiant had shuttlebays? I thought it only had escape pods.
     
  9. Kemaiku

    Kemaiku Admiral Admiral

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    It has one underside dropbay, the circular hatch the exact opposite point from the bridge under the ship.

    We see the Chaffee (spelling?) deployed from it several times on the show.
     
  10. M.A.C.O.

    M.A.C.O. Commodore Commodore

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    ^ You're right!

    [​IMG]
     
  11. Kemaiku

    Kemaiku Admiral Admiral

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  12. Mycroft Maxwell

    Mycroft Maxwell Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    actually John Eaves designed the Sovereign class to seperate.

    http://fsd.trekships.org/art/1701-e.html

    If you scroll down to the bottom of that page, you can see how John Eaves worked the saucer separation out. He pretty much prepared his design for anything.
     
  13. MakeshiftPython

    MakeshiftPython Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    It's not the size that counts. The E-E would certainly take care of the Vengeance.
     
  14. Mycroft Maxwell

    Mycroft Maxwell Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Then theres the All Good Things Dreadnought Galaxy X whatever you want to call it....It has a freakin beam cannon that can shoot through shields, through armored hull, then out the other side of said armored hull, and the beam keeps going. Just fire that thing once at the overly exposed bridge of the Vengeance and its all over.
     
  15. NeedleOfInquiry

    NeedleOfInquiry Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    I wouldn't say that the Vengeance is more poweful than the Ent-E, but their power would actually be pretty comparable.

    When you consider the fact that NuTrek torpedoes are rated at 320 Isotons (according to a display screen in ITD) when Voyager's class 6 photons were only 200 isotons, it's clear that weapons technology has taken a BIG leap in the new universe.

    Also, Memory Alpha says that the JJprise can burstfire 12 torpedoes at a time, though I'm not 100% sure if that's canon. In any case, the Vengeance's torpedo turrets should be far superior to the JJprise's tubes. It would seem that Nuphasers are equally impressive, with their ability to arc mid flight.

    On top of that, the Vengeance was able to survive an internal detonation of 72 torpedoes, so I HIGHLY doubt a single quantum torpedo will be enough to one shot it.

    So, yeah. My money is still on the E (it is the hero ship after all) but it would not be a roflstomp.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2013
  16. publiusr

    publiusr Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    It kinda reminded me of the Excelsiors tracing phasers from the DC comics
     
  17. Mycroft Maxwell

    Mycroft Maxwell Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    This is what pisses me off so much about the guys behind the scenes of JJtrek. They freaking UBERED EVERYTHING. Its like JJ, Kurtzman, and Orci did know what the hell they were doing, very unrealistically. Its like, "hey lets give this wagon a dodge viper engine". You can not reverse engineer a mining vessel and expect to have a ship able to take on a warship from the time of said mining ship's origin. Everything spec wise done to the JJverse ships is just freakin dumb. Oh lets make it BIGGER than a GALAXY class. Oh lets make the phaser and photon torpedoes MORE POWERFUL and MORE ADVANCED than 24th century advanced starships. Now heres the truth-

    The Kelvin can F up the Nx-01. The JJprise Can F up the Kelvin. The Vengeance can F up the JJprise. The Enterprise D can F up the Vengence. The Enterprise E can F up The Enterprise D. The All Good Things dreadnought thingy can F up the Enterprisie E. The Enterprise J can F up the All Good Things Drednought. THATS CHRONOLOGICAL REALISM RIGHT THERE. Anyone who thinks otherwise is not familiar with Engineering, history, and technological advancements and continuity.

    Also, Put a Nuclear Missile on a freakin 1913 battleship, Its still not gonna beat a 2013 Destroyer.
     
  18. Shawnster

    Shawnster Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    No, but it could beat a 2013 mining ship, even without the nuke.
     
  19. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    But if you dropped a modern cell phone into the 1960's you may end up with very different cell phones (and everything else) than you're expecting come 1990. They may even top the ones 2013-Prime has to offer.
     
  20. bbjegglebells

    bbjegglebells Admiral Admiral

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    Yeah, but if a 1913 battleship used tech from a 2013 mining ship, I don't think it could take out a 2013 battleship.