Is J.J. Abams "Star Trek" Sustainable?

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies: Kelvin Universe' started by Danger Ace, Apr 17, 2013.

  1. Kruezerman

    Kruezerman Commodore Commodore

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    You misunderstood, I was speaking about the people who were certain that Trek was ending or that general movie taste was in the shitter, etc.

    I actually prefer the idea of Earth being optimistic instead of "perfect" as per Gene's vision. TNG always struck me as odd in that respect.
     
  2. Coloratura

    Coloratura Snuggle Princess Premium Member

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    True, but I left the minor Pew!Pew!s out because they were so minor. If they didn't reach a minimum of Die Hard levels of Pew!Pew!, I put them aside. :D

    Indeed. Star Trek was Horatio Hornblower in space. It was a shoot 'em up, dynamic action adventure. Yes, there were high minded ideas, but the meat of the show was "We come in peace, shoot to kill, shoot to kill, shoot to kill, we come in peace, shoot to kill, shoot to kill, men!"

    (borrowed from Star Trekkin' a bit. ;) )
     
  3. horatio83

    horatio83 Commodore Commodore

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    It is not ahead of the plot and characters, it is behind them, in the background.
    Do you know "Children of Men"? The background, in this case a political one which is very vivid, does not interfere with the plot. But the movie wouldn't be the same without it.
    Or take the fictional historical genetic experimentation stuff, it served as background for Kodos, Khan, the pilot of TNG, the end of ENT and Bashir. Fictional politics and history belong in the background but the stories wouldn't work without them.

    About your dislike for sermons, I agree. Another word for background in this context is ideology in the Marxian sense of 'they don't know it, but they are doing it'. If all the utopian elements of Trek have become automatic such that the respective writers isn't even aware of them his work will most likely be better.


    While TWOK and FC do include some action they also contain some slower parts and interesting themes. The mixture is what makes them work so well.
    A purely idea-based movie like TMP fails and a pure action movie like NEM fails as well.
     
  4. Greg Cox

    Greg Cox Admiral Premium Member

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    Agreed. A movie that is nonstop action (like Van Helsing) gets exhausting very fast. Even Raiders of the Lost Ark knew enough to break up the wild action sequences, with quieter, more character-oriented scenes. ("Indy, maybe the Ark is not meant to be found.")

    Personally, I thought the last movie had lots of good character bits, between Spock and Sarek, for instance, or Spock and Uhura, or Kirk and Pine, etc. It wasn't just space battles and 'splosions.

    Regarding ideology, I tend to think that if you put (hopefully) interesting characters in difficult situations, emotionally or otherwise, themes and messages and such will just arise organically from the plot, without trying to deliberately impose them on the story.

    For myself, when I sit down at the keyboard in the morning, I'm not thinking what Important Statement can I make about racism or global warming today, I'm putting myself in my character's heads and trying to figure out how they're going to react to whatever trouble I throw at them. :)

    And, oh yeah, deadlines. :)
     
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  5. CaptainStoner

    CaptainStoner Knuckle-dragging TNZ Denizen Admiral

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    TWOK is a snooze if its an action movie.

    But its true some purists forget that TOS has a fistfight and Kirk's torn shirt in practically every episode. Kirk has patented moves for cryin out loud.
     
  6. marillion

    marillion Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Of course the transporter accident resulted in an altogether different "pew-pew"... What? Too soon?
     
  7. Danger Ace

    Danger Ace Commander Red Shirt

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    "Van Helsing" is a great example of what I fear may happen with the Trek franchise in that VH was a well polished production yet it failed because it felt very smug and self-satisfied ... as though all involved thought that it was good enough just to go by numbers.

    Another great example. I would also add one of my absolute favorite action-adventure films "Last of the Mohicans," the version starring Daniel Day-Lewis and directed by Michael Mann. Almost non-stop action yet is able to tell an epic story. Even last year's James Bond movie, "Skyfall," gave us a well-motivated action film loaded with character - that film restored my faith in the commercial motion-picture industry and the action genre specifically.

    Bits, yes. The Spock character fared the best in terms of character while James Kirk was developed in almost an aburb and cartoonish way going from birth to captain of the Enterprise so very, very quickly. The film sought to swing from one high-spot to another and, as you say, that leads to exhaustion.

    It also can lead, in my opinion, to audience desensitization where the constant overwhelming of peoples senses causes them to become numbed or indifferent to the action thereby actual reaching a state of diminishing returns. That is why I worry about all the CGI heavy super-action sequences one after another. In and of itself, CGI is a wonderful ingrediant when skillfully measured out otherwise it can overwhelm the palate.


    I so very much agree. It is ideology and attitude. I am one of those that believes it takes just as much time, effort and resources to make a a "bad" film as it does to make a "good" one (or one that falls somewhere in-between). If one takes the time to tend their garden then much will present itself for harvest.

    Which is why Nemesis upset me so. TPTB of that one clearly seemed to try and fool folks by pulling plastic carrots out of the ground then wondering aloud why no one was buying what they were selling.

    Not disagreeing with you ... just adding my take on it:

    I don't believe folks are looking for "Star Trek" to be message heavy or preachy per se as most fans love spirited-adventure, however, it is more satisfying when embued with the illusion of meaning. That it represents something of noble quest beyond that of repetitiously slaying the big bad dragons.

    Kirk and company have always been Arthurian in a futuristic Camelot. As such, fandom, I believe has come to hold it to a higher standard of expecting something more than just a hedonistic thrill-ride of CGI ad infinitum.

    Again, all in my opinion and with repect to all others presented here.
     
  8. Xaios

    Xaios Commander Red Shirt

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    Kirk and Pine, eh? I guess Picard did say that if you travel far enough, you'll meet yourself. And heaven knows, the warp curve in JJ-verse allows for some pretty damn fast traveling. :lol:

    (I kid, of course I know it's suppsed to be Pike. All in good fun.)
     
  9. Set Harth

    Set Harth Vice Admiral Admiral

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    What is up with Alice Eve's accent in the trailers?

    Are we supposed to assume that because of the "Nero butterfly effect" Abramsverse Carol grew up in Ireland or something?
     
  10. Ovation

    Ovation Vice Admiral Admiral

    Why not? Though I'd think London more likely if there is any tie to the plot and her background.

    It's easily imaginable that events unfolded in such a way that Admiral Marcus could have made different choices about how and where to raise his daughter. This hardly represents a deal-breaker (at least it certainly shouldn't).
     
  11. Happy Xmas (War Is Over)

    Happy Xmas (War Is Over) Fleet Admiral Premium Member

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    Eve is English.
     
  12. Set Harth

    Set Harth Vice Admiral Admiral

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  13. Happy Xmas (War Is Over)

    Happy Xmas (War Is Over) Fleet Admiral Premium Member

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    Why Ireland then?
    Perhaps a slight Austrian accent would be more to your liking?
     
  14. Set Harth

    Set Harth Vice Admiral Admiral

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    It sounded somewhat Irish to me.