Is everything before the destruction of the kelvin exactly the same

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies XI+' started by Dar70, May 4, 2013.

  1. beamMe

    beamMe Commodore

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    Re: Is everything before the destruction of the kelvin exactly the sam

    Let's try a different hypothetical: In City on the Edge of Forever, if the Guardian had been able to send Kirk and Spock just a few minutes into the past, so they could stop McCoy from ever jumping back in time, would McCoy still be present in the 1930 in that new timeline where he's prevented from going back?
     
  2. DonIago

    DonIago Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: Is everything before the destruction of the kelvin exactly the sam

    City would seem to feature at least three timelines-

    1) The normal one up to the point where Our Heroes beam down to the planet and never return.

    2) The one where McCoy ventured into the past and wasn't stopped.

    3) The one where McCoy ventured into the past and was stopped, which is almost indistinguishable from the original timeline.

    If the Guardian had sent Our Heroes back just a few minutes, then we'd have-

    1) The original timeline.
    2) The timeline McCoy altered.
    3) The timeline where Our Heroes stop McCoy.

    There will always be a timeline where McCoy ventured into the past, it just won't be the one where Our Heroes ultimately end up.
     
  3. beamMe

    beamMe Commodore

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    Re: Is everything before the destruction of the kelvin exactly the sam

    In number three he doesn't.
    And that's the point: If he's prevented from going back into the past, he can't be there anyway just because he was there in another timeline.
     
  4. DonIago

    DonIago Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: Is everything before the destruction of the kelvin exactly the sam

    That's what I'm saying. There will always be a timeline where McCoy ventured into the past, it's just not the one Our Heroes find themselves in at the end if they stop McCoy before he goes through the Guardian. But in a different timeline he did.

    The only way there could not be such a timeline would be if McCoy hadn't gone through the Guardian in timeline 1.
     
  5. beamMe

    beamMe Commodore

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    Re: Is everything before the destruction of the kelvin exactly the sam

    Timey wimey stuff. It's complicated :)
     
  6. DonIago

    DonIago Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: Is everything before the destruction of the kelvin exactly the sam

    Also true. I'm still having trouble understanding the X theory mentioned above. :)
     
  7. Relayer1

    Relayer1 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: Is everything before the destruction of the kelvin exactly the sam

    And let's not forget - Spock Prime melded with Picard so he may well know it's there !

    Yup. And Wibbly.

    Not sure about Wobbly though... :)
     
  8. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Is everything before the destruction of the kelvin exactly the sam

    Is it similar to what I floated here?

     
  9. DonIago

    DonIago Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: Is everything before the destruction of the kelvin exactly the sam

    Did you just ask me to comment on whether one theory I acknowledged I was having trouble following is comparable to another? :p
     
  10. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Is everything before the destruction of the kelvin exactly the sam

    Not intentionally! :lol:

    Perhaps bryce will clarify? It might help me understand the X better, for example if he said it was, or similar to, what I suggested.

    I mean, it looks like it is similar to what I said there. But I wonder whether X is really the right letter. One of those messed up letters from Dr. Seuss's On Beyond Zebra! might be more apt.
     
  11. HaventGotALife

    HaventGotALife Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Re: Is everything before the destruction of the kelvin exactly the sam

    That's what's assumed. I mean, as long as you accept Enterprise as a true prequel and the Enterprise-D didn't change the universe in Yesterday's Enterprise, First Contact (the Movie), DS9's Past Tense, Scotty in IV etc. They did play with the timeline in the 23rd and 24th Centuries which may explain the differences in technology we see in Enterprise versus the 23rd Century Enterprise.

    So things may be more or less the same. But it's easy to explain away differences by the other changes in the timeline.
     
  12. Admiral Buzzkill

    Admiral Buzzkill Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Is everything before the destruction of the kelvin exactly the sam

    This business about Data's head is fundamentally no different from any other paradox introduced by time travel - throwing in the "alternate universe" bit is a distraction. It's the same causality problem.
     
  13. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Is everything before the destruction of the kelvin exactly the sam

    Maybe, in a vein similar to TNG: Parallels, there are two (or more) versions of the JJverse, one with Data's head and one without it! :lol:

     
  14. Set Harth

    Set Harth Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: Is everything before the destruction of the kelvin exactly the sam

    But didn't that mind meld happen before Time's Arrow?
     
  15. BillJ

    BillJ Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Is everything before the destruction of the kelvin exactly the sam

    Yup.
     
  16. Jerikka Dawn

    Jerikka Dawn Commander Red Shirt

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    Re: Is everything before the destruction of the kelvin exactly the sam

    So, my take on this is that a descendant of this guy was a member of the Federation Council subcommittee of standardization and was a proponent of the Earth-centric stardate system based on Terran years and had the swing vote. He was also a big supporter of larger, more bulkier starship designs. If NuBones doesn't go through the Guardian, this guy lives, and his descendant is born.

    [​IMG]
     
  17. Relayer1

    Relayer1 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: Is everything before the destruction of the kelvin exactly the sam

    I'll take your word for it - I have no idea whatsoever. :)

    Just watched a BBC interview with JJ where he unequivocally (re)confirmed that the new films in NO way overwrite or cancel the original timeline.

    That ends that discussion for me...
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2013
  18. Ovation

    Ovation Vice Admiral Admiral

    Re: Is everything before the destruction of the kelvin exactly the sam

    Someone should send a copy to Levar Burton. Should bring down his blood pressure. :lol:
     
  19. Set Harth

    Set Harth Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: Is everything before the destruction of the kelvin exactly the sam

    I don't really see what difference it would make. Hadn't that message already gotten out after the last film, in the form of statements from Orci in addition to things like Countdown and Star Trek Online?
     
  20. Keeper

    Keeper Commodore Commodore

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    Re: Is everything before the destruction of the kelvin exactly the sam

    He may have just paid too much attention to the people expressing butthurt until he began to believe their propaganda then, (in the interest of maintaining good relations with his following) felt obligated to become a mouthpiece.

    Hell, on a few occasional, they almost convinced me. :alienblush:
     

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