is babylonian 5 any good

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by tmosler, May 23, 2013.

  1. stj

    stj Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    It's hard to imagine that anyone who was satisfied by DS9's overall story arc could feel satisfied by Babylon 5. For example, if DS9's treatment of the Prophets seemed fitting, then Babylon 5's treatment of the Vorlons must seem outrageous. Or, if the human role in galactic affairs seems appropriate to human stature in DS9, then Babylon 5 must seem like some kind of self-flagellation. If Section 31 on DS9 seemed so cool, then Nightwatch on Babylon 5 must be some sort of maniacal leftwing caricature. If Sisko's apoetheosis in the cave of Mt. Doom seems like a satisfying climax, then Severed Dreams must be a nightmare.
     
  2. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Legend of the Rangers did have one good line...

    "What did he do that was so wrong?"

    "He didn't die!"
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2013
  3. RandyS

    RandyS Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Or anything else on TV now.
     
  4. Greg Cox

    Greg Cox Admiral Premium Member

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    I gave up on Babylon-5 early on, but was persuaded to give it a second chance by friends whose judgment I trusted, and, yeah, like TNG, it gets much better by the time you get to the third season or so. It peters out a bit near the end, though. As I recall, I kind of drifted away during the fifth season . . . although I remember catching the series finale.

    Truth to tell, I was much more into XENA and FARSCAPE back then.
     
  5. DalekJim

    DalekJim Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I rank Babylon 5 up there with The Wire, Neon Genesis Evangelion and I, Claudius as TV storytelling at its peak. It also kicks arse from the start, only messing up slightly in its final season. The Gathering is slightly clunky but it's trying to do somethign brave and different in a way that none of the modern Trek pilots do. Michael O'Hare as Sinclair is my favourite main B5 character so I find myself rewatching S1 a lot more than S5. Hell, I'd take him over any of the Trek captains.

    Don't start with In The Beginning. Ruins the entire mystery of Season 1. Boot up The Gathering and let the story unfold.
     
  6. Mysterion

    Mysterion Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Be patient with Season One. There are a lot of things that may seem unimportant, non-sequitor or even silly. However, much of this will pay off as your make your way through the rest of the series.
     
  7. Sean_McCormick

    Sean_McCormick Captain Captain

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    You're kidding, aren't you?

    The Prophets on DS9 were interesting in concept and in the beginnig also in execution, but in the end disolved into a very simplistic good vs. evil thread, while the <REDACTED> vs. <REDACTED> conflict on B5 initialy seemed to be a simple good vs. evil story which then morphed into something much more complex and interesting.

    Sec.31 and the Nightwatch can't even be really compared, the Nightwatch is not presented as an secret organisation that operates above the law as Sec.31 is. Also i'm pretty sure that Sec.31 is not supposed to be cool and that the audience should have the same aversion, that Bashir feels.

    Sisko becoming one of the Prophets was a good idea but the way it happened was very unsatisfying (as the Prophets storyline had long since fallen apart), while Severed Dreams (where i fail to see any comparability to Sisko's apotheosis) might be one of the best episodes of american sci-fi television.
     
  8. Jimi_James

    Jimi_James Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    No need to imagine it. I was satisfied by both and can accept both for what they are, without taking anything away from the other.
     
  9. DalekJim

    DalekJim Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    They're my 2 favourite American sci-fi shows. B5 is definitely better but both are satisfying viewing experiences. DS9 just suffers from a lack of depth in comparison.
     
  10. Bisz

    Bisz Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    B5 is fantastic.

    I watched In the Beginning first and yes it was spoilerish but it was so damned cool it got me hooked.

    Season one can be slow at times, but having seen ItB first I knew that there was going to be a hell of a lot of awesome coming my way if I stuck with it, and sure enough, not only was I not disappointed, I was blown away.

    B5 is a classic and one of the pinnacles of sci-fi TV.
     
  11. stj

    stj Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    No. But you seem to think I liked DS9. The point of the partial list of comparisons is that Babylon 5 handled its themes much better. It's a little cryptic because of trying to avoid spoilers.

    I must presume you treated them both as mindless diversion. Yet I must still insist that both had more aspirations than that. And I further suggest that treating them frivolously is a disservice to both shows.
     
  12. Fruitcake

    Fruitcake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    PLEASE don't star with The Beginning!!

    You can do it that way the second time you watch Bab 5. You only get to start with no spoilers once :)

    And I never had any problems with Season 1, I was quite enamored with the station and I found plenty to intrigue me.
     
  13. Nagisa Furukawa

    Nagisa Furukawa Commander Red Shirt

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    The thing is, though, people can like completely contradictory works of art. Liking DS9's treatment of the Prophets (which I didn't, BTW) doesn't necessarily mean that person would think the treatment of Vorlons was outrageous; they're different shows with different ideals, even if they do have stuff in common. Batman is Batman, but I'm able to enjoy both the Dick Sprang, bright and colorful, Robin-with-no-pants era Batman and the Frank Miller, hidden in the shadows, breaking people's arms Batman. Liking a particular work of art does not preclude one from liking a work of art that goes in a different direction.

    Interesting, BTW, that you chose Severed Dreams as B5's equivalent of "Sisko going into the cave of Mt. Doom;" surely that'd be Z'ha'dum?
     
  14. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Name 5 other things you did in 1994 which you were proud of?

    I remember rewatching The Gathering after several years of not bothering because what happened was firmly entrenched in my brain... Dear god the guitars, the electric fucking guitars!

    It was like a game show theme with the volume turned up to 11.
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2013
  15. Mr Light

    Mr Light Admiral Admiral

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    Do NOT watch In The Beginning first, it will spoil just about the entire series :eek:

    Unfortunately I didn't start the show until mid Season Four and I was completely spoiled on all the awesome stuff that came before and I really, really wish I could have experienced it as it happened and not have all the mysteries spoiled.
     
  16. stj

    stj Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Sisko puts down the rebel Prophets and restores authority, whereas Sheridan, well, Sheridan does not. But in one way, Sisko's supreme orderal finds Sheridan's counterpart in "Comes the Inquisitor."

    Sheridan doesn't talk to the Vorlons like Sisko talks to the Prophets and I don't think it's merely a matter of the show's different styles. It's a little like perceiving a movie that presents a Civil War story that presumes the Confederate version to be more or less the same as one that presumes slavery is both wrong and the cause of the war. (Except that a science fiction story has no objective truth to go by.)

    Does Sisko treat the Prophets like a more or less normal human being possessed of morals and reason? Or does Sheridan treat the Vorlons likewise? I don't see how you can think both are equally valid as characters, at least not without more or less ignoring everything but the most superficial aspects.
     
  17. Sephiroth

    Sephiroth Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I haven't read any of them :( i've been hunting the books but have only found a few, and I don't want to start reading a set until I have them all, for fear that I would go mad if I couldn't finish a story.
     
  18. Fruitcake

    Fruitcake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I hear the trilogies are the best and some of the numbered series is patchy in comparison. You definitely do not want to read the trilogies unless you have all 3! I paid at least 20 dollars for one of the books on ebay, very worth it.
     
  19. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Unless you live in communist China, your public library should ave everything... Unless they've been stolen or treated very poorly and then sold because they're falling apart.

    Don't just go to your nearest convenient library, check the online catalogue, which should tabulate all the libraries in your district/area/city/state-whatever as one giant database, and then a white panel van will drive for hours to bring that book to your personal library.

    Ditto for comics.

    The Comics abut Valen are god damned awful.

    For gods sake man! A comic book is like being given the reigns to a movie with a trillion,trillion dollar budget... And this is all you could squeeze out of the the Minbari not born of Minbari's endgame?

    :)

    Isn't there times in life when you just want to say things like...

    "They're using you! They're using you!"

    Or...

    "There are things that have been happening for the last year that we have not been allowed to tell you!"

    Fox News is being reamed somehow by the Establishment.

    I'll stand up for FOX News' right to be a fear mongering asshole, but I'll snigger and smirk while I'm at it.
     
  20. Fruitcake

    Fruitcake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I can never go back to the library because I had an 84.00 fine.