Iron Man: SOB (SPOILERS)

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by A beaker full of death, Sep 15, 2008.

  1. A beaker full of death

    A beaker full of death Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I really liked the movie.

    BUT... how could they take 40 years of history - the bodyguard story - pay it lip service - and then in the final line of the movie toss it in the crapper???

    Also, what happened to Supreme Headquarters International Espionage Law-enforcement Division?
     
  2. David cgc

    David cgc Vice Admiral Admiral

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    They thought the current position was more interesting. Robert Downey Jr. would probably get a little saggy in the face if they waited 40 years to take the story in that direction out of a sense of obligation.

    1991 happened. And, come to think of it, it's just a tad obvious to actually use the word "espionage" in the name of a spy agency. Not that anyone wouldn't know what they really do, but it's just good manners to dress it up a bit.
     
  3. A beaker full of death

    A beaker full of death Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I'll be damned.
    I skipped 1986-2004.
     
  4. captcalhoun

    captcalhoun Admiral Admiral

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    i loved the fact that they tossed out the bodyguard story and Stark's dismissal of it as being daft.
     
  5. CaptainCanada

    CaptainCanada Admiral Admiral

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    Tony's ID has been public for years now (and intermittently before that; he's gone public three times, by my count, reverting back twice), so presumably they saw more interesting things to do with the public identity then doing the same secret ID thing that all the other superhero films have done.

    I welcome it; comics have a multiplicity of formats and setups that films are only starting to get to (another example would be Batman not saving Rachel, something that comics did 30 years ago, and have done very regularly since the 80s). I think the "superhero as celebrity" metaphor has a lot more untapped potential these days.

    Tony's the sort for whom the secret ID is really gratuitous, anyway.
     
  6. Silvercrest

    Silvercrest Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The bodyguard thing doesn't make much sense anyway. Consider why superheroes have a secret identity:
    1) To protect those closest to them from reprisals by their enemies.
    2) To protect themselves from reprisals, justified or otherwise, by law enforcement and government agencies (as well as their enemies).
    3) To give themselves breathing space, so that they don't have to be in persona 24 hours a day.
    Anything else?

    Now consider:
    In Tony's case, #1 doesn't make any sense at all. By declaring Iron Man to be his employee, he's basically defining his entire company to be "those closest to him." All an enemy has to do to get back at Iron Man is to start killing Stark's employees. He can't protect them all.

    Furthermore, by declaring Iron Man to be his bodyguard, he is defining himself as being the person closest to Iron Man, thus making himself a more tempting target for the bad guys. He's putting himself at greater risk, not less.

    #2 may work in the sense that Tony can't be held personally liable for the property damage, etc., caused by his employee. However, if Iron Man is declared to be working in the interest of Stark's company, the company may held liable. The only way they could avoid blame would be to fire Iron Man.

    This actually happened back during the Armor Wars in the late 1980s, but it's amazing it hasn't happened every other day from the beginning.

    #3 works more or less, but since Stark is a celebrity on his own, he doesn't have very much breathing space anyway. Actually it may work the other way around-- being Iron Man provides breathing space from being Stark.

    Personally I just think that the bodyguard idea was simply one more of Stan Lee's amusing variations on a theme, but not one that had much thought put into it. Kind of like the Inhumans wearing masks. I'm still trying to figure that one out!
     
  7. Mark_Nguyen

    Mark_Nguyen Commodore Commodore

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    Thing is though, from a storytelling standpoint Stark wasn't really out to start a superhero career. Stane was defeated, and the threats caused by people stealing his weapons were (as far as he knew) silenced. Aside from the requisite enormous amounts of damage that superpowered combat tends to do to the surrounding area, he didn't do THAT many illegal things, and anything he COULD reasonably be sued for he could afford to fight or settle.

    Coming out as Iron Man would make perfect sense for him, as he was basically done with being Shellhead. It fits the playboy-yet-responsible Tony Stark portrayed through the film just right. What screws it up is Nck Fury showing up post-credits and saying that Iron Man may have a use in the Avengers, ergo that giving up his secret identity compromised his ability to actively participate in this program.

    Mark
     
  8. A beaker full of death

    A beaker full of death Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Post-credits? Fuck me. Why do they do that??
     
  9. CaptainCanada

    CaptainCanada Admiral Admiral

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    It's an easy way to include stuff that doesn't fit into the main picture very well.

    In IM's case, they had a great ending; it would have lessened the effect to tack on an extra scene.
     
  10. captcalhoun

    captcalhoun Admiral Admiral

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    also, Ultimate Iron Man's been public since near the start of his career (not sure what the UIM2 LS has added)...
     
  11. A beaker full of death

    A beaker full of death Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Sorry, ultimates so much count for nothing.
     
  12. CaptainCanada

    CaptainCanada Admiral Admiral

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    When the creators of the Ultimate Universe are heavily featured on the movie's advisory committee (as Brian Michael Bendis and Mark Millar were), they count for something.;)
     
  13. The Old Mixer

    The Old Mixer Clean Old Mod Moderator

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    The secret identity cliche that really gets me, which was quite common in the Silver Age, is when a hero's secret ID is generally known to the be the only person who can get ahold of the hero. Clark Kent is the only person who can get in touch with Superman; Don Blake is the only person who can get in touch with Thor; Matt Murdock is the only person who can get in touch with Daredevil. I know that good deal of suspension of disbelief has to go into the whole secret ID schtick, but could these people be any more obvious? If I were trying to figure out a hero's secret ID, the person who's known as the only one who can get in touch with the hero is the first person I'd look at.
     
  14. CaptainCanada

    CaptainCanada Admiral Admiral

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    I would say Lois would be thought of more than Clark concerning Supes.
     
  15. jonnyskywatcher

    jonnyskywatcher Commander Red Shirt

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    I liked that Tony went public with Iron Man, because there have been way too many superhero movies with the same old secret identity thing.
     
  16. Anwar

    Anwar Vice Admiral Admiral

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    At least with Spiderman they had people put the obvious dots together several times throughout the series, I mean Frederick Foswell nearly figured it out back in ASM 50 when he saw that Peter had quit the Bugle soon after Spidey "quit" being a hero.
     
  17. The Old Mixer

    The Old Mixer Clean Old Mod Moderator

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    I'm citing how it was actually depicted in the comics back in the day.
     
  18. Spaceman Spiff

    Spaceman Spiff Abuse of Power Administrator

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    Or Jimmy Olsen, since he's got the signal watch.
     
  19. Unicron

    Unicron Continuity Spackle Moderator

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    I would have preferred that they put the scene after the animated credits, personally, rather than the entire credits. The reason for that is that it I think it's timed better, because many people left the theater without even realizing the extra scene existed. They didn't want to wait five minutes for that.
     
  20. Dream

    Dream Admiral Admiral

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    I believe if people can't be bothered to wait five minutes to read the names of the people that took the time to make the movie they shouldn't be rewarded with things like post credit scenes.