Iron Man 2: Grading, Review, Discussion **SPOILERS**

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by SalvorHardin, Apr 29, 2010.

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Grade Iron Man 2

  1. Excellent

    60 vote(s)
    36.4%
  2. Above Average

    67 vote(s)
    40.6%
  3. Average

    29 vote(s)
    17.6%
  4. Below Average

    6 vote(s)
    3.6%
  5. Terrible

    3 vote(s)
    1.8%
  1. DarKush

    DarKush Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: Iron Man 2 - Grading & Discussion Thread (spoilers guaranteed)

    I liked it, but I didn't love it. I liked the first IM film better.

    What I did like about IM2:

    -Cast. Of course the regulars but the new additions were good choices too, especially Rourke and Johannsen. I wasn't expecting much from SJ, but I thought she handled her role pretty well. I was hoping she would speak with a Russian accent at least once, but as one of the other posters said, if she's a master spy she would probably speak flawless English. I did enjoy her fight scene toward the end. Could there be a Deadpool and Black Widow movie in the offing? That might be sweet. Garry Shandling was also great. I hope they bring him back.

    -More action. The first IM didn't have enough action, enough of Iron Man in action, though I can understand since it was an origin film. IM2 ramped up the action and I thought that was a good thing. It was really cool to see War Machine and Iron Man kicking ass.

    -FX were pretty top notch.

    What I didn't care for regarding IM2:

    -Hammer. I thought Rockwell did a good job with the material. He's good at playing the weasel, but the character was so wimpy. I was expecting him to freak out and attempt to harm Pepper at the end, but he just stood there, even after Pepper called the cops. Seems like he would've at least called his lawyer. From what I recall, the comic Hammer was much more ruthless and a worthy adversary. He pushed Tony over the brink. But I did like what one of the posters said about film Hammer being a buffoon, a failed attempt at trying to be Tony Stark. And Rockwell did convey the frustration and the envy of his character. His Hammer was good, but never good enough. And though he tried to be cool he never was.

    -Vanko. As many felt, I thought Rourke was underused. He was good with what they gave him. However, I had misgivings about his character as soon as I heard that he would be a composite of Whiplash-Blacklash and Crimson Dynamo. I wish they had just made him the Crimson Dynamo straight up. I would've loved to see that armor design in the film. I think Vanko's motivation would've worked better for me, and it would've added more depth to his beef with Tony if Howard Stark had actually stolen the technology/ideas from Anton. That would've given his animus more resonance. Upon reflection, I think Whiplash was the wrong villain to use for this story. I think the Ghost would've been better.

    -Skirting the alcoholism. I think it was a mistake not to focus on that, instead of the technology killing him part. And the Tony-Rhodey fight, 'intervention', was poorly done. I think I can see what they were trying to do, to show how Tony had become a danger to himself, but the way it was done, the cause was that he was just partying because he thought he was dying and not because of his alcoholism. So they never really had to address that.

    The party/fight scene also got Rhodes into armor fast, but it didn't come off as believable to me. In fact, it felt rushed like Rhodes was itching to jump in the armor as soon as he got to the party. I guess Tony was 'giving' Rhodes the armor though that was implied later, but I didn't care for how he just took the armor and took it to the military, especially after Tony had explicitly told the Senate that the armor was his property. Seems like there would've been a legal issue there. I also don't see Rhodes, being his friend, going against Tony's express wishes like that. Or giving that type of weapon to the military especially when guys like Hammer could get their hands on it. I was hoping this plot would be the impetus for Rhodes to resign from the military. I believe he was ex-military in the comic when he became Iron Man and later War Machine anyway.

    -Demon in a Bottle/Armor Wars-I guess both of these story lines were sort of used in IM2, which is a shame because I had hoped each would be used to better effect and each could be there own movie. Now its doubtful that either will be revisited.

    -Plot: After the Senate hearing, it seemed like there was no real plot. Just a lot of different scenes strung together, with nothing really making the narrative cohesive. In the first film, Stane was moving things behind the scenes, his machinations were helping propel the movie to a conclusion. Here, Hammer was just sort of there and Rourke was holed up in a room with a bird for far too much in the film.

    -Nick Fury: I didn't care for him all that much this time around. I can't put my finger on it, but he didn't feel like Nick Fury, like a high-ranking intelligence agent and isn't Ultimate Fury also a general? Perhaps he wasn't hard ass enough for my taste. I would've liked something more like Andre Braugher's general in Fantastic Four 2. Though on reflection, it was cool to see him and SJ together again. Brought back memories of the Spirit. It might be neat to do a SHIELD movie with him and SJ.
     
  2. DarthPipes

    DarthPipes Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Iron Man 2 - Grading & Discussion Thread (spoilers guaranteed)

    Let me correct that. Iron Man 2 is one of the rare SUPERHERO movies that is not better than its original. Generally the most sucessful superhero movies in recent years have had sequels that were superior. The Dark Knight, Spider-Man 2, and X-Men 2 were all better than their original films. Iron Man 2 disappointned.

    Yeah, they shot their load on this and shot it poorly.
     
  3. RoJoHen

    RoJoHen Awesome Premium Member

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    Re: Iron Man 2 - Grading & Discussion Thread (spoilers guaranteed)

    Well, the first Iron Man was a lot more awesome than any of those other franchises' origin films, so I'll accept the slightly less awesome sequel.
     
  4. Shazam!

    Shazam! Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: Iron Man 2 - Grading & Discussion Thread (spoilers guaranteed)

    Batman Begins is way better than The Dark Knight.
     
  5. captcalhoun

    captcalhoun Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Iron Man 2 - Grading & Discussion Thread (spoilers guaranteed)

    Ultimate Fury, is indeed a general, as he heads SHIELD.

    as for Andre Braugher's general in F4 II, he's basically Ultimate Fury with no eye-patch and a different name. they even ripped off a scene from Ultimate Extinction with the bit about Reed not being on the high school football team and whatnot in the forest.


    ah, this bit:

     
  6. DonnyBaker

    DonnyBaker Lieutenant

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    Re: Iron Man 2 - Grading & Discussion Thread (spoilers guaranteed)

    OK,
    I thought it was a pretty damn good movie. The overall plot and story was a good one. But like a few others in this thread there were a few things I thought they missed on...
    1st, How did Rhodes steal the armor? They even mentioned in the donut shop scene that there were protections in place to prevent it being stolen. And then Rhodes goes and flies it straight to the military, exactly where IronMan didnt want it to go.
    2nd, Why did Iron man keep flying over the people in the end fight scene? With all those drones after him dont you think he would have been smart to fly away to a more remote location? Nope, just keep swooping over the people and put them in danger.
    3rd, I am Soooo tired of films lately showing a woman, and a particularly small one at that, kick the ass of 7-10 full grown men. I dont care if she avoided getting hit. All those Lucha Libre moves where she flips around the guy and flips him to the ground. If it was even remotely realistic she would have tried one of those flip things and the guy would have caught her in mid air and gave her a "back-breaker" She doesnt have the weight or muscles to flip fully grown men around like that.
    4th, All the jokes from Downey that made the 1st film great felt forced and used too often in this movie. When they could have been focusing on the plot.
     
  7. captcalhoun

    captcalhoun Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Iron Man 2 - Grading & Discussion Thread (spoilers guaranteed)

    well, be fair, Black Widow is an ex Soviet super soldier... her strength is above normal human...
     
  8. Admiral_Young

    Admiral_Young Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Iron Man 2 - Grading & Discussion Thread (spoilers guaranteed)

    I quite enjoyed "Iron Man 2" and after reading the spoilers from the novel a month before the film's release I was at first really disappointed. Overall it's a great pop corn flick that manages to entertain you but is lacking any real substance. I think Favs could have done so much more with this cast and story if he chose but but I read an interview where he stated the process for making this film was the same as making the first Iron Man they went into the story without expectations or trying to please the fans...they just wanted to make a good movie. While I would say they accomplished their goal they could have made a GREAT movie.

    John Debney's score while used little and mixed weird with the AC/DC soundtrack I thought is much better than the first score and I look forward to the release of the score on July 7. I especially loved the music played during Black Widow's attack on the security guards and when Iron Man and War Machine are fighting Hammer and Ivan's drones. The action sequences are spectacularly shot in this film bringing a level of high octane emotion and I think involving the audience really well.

    The cast is great I thought Tony's banter and continued relationship with Pepper was spot on and mirrors the first movie. Don Cheadle is fantastic as Rhodey/War Machine and I got goosebumps when he arrives in the Mark 2 armor at Edwards Air Force Base. Sam Rockwell was good with what he had to play but ultimately Justin Hammer was one of the things that disappointed me about the film. They chose for some reason to make Hammer have this outgoing, humorous, quirky personality like Tony instead I think they should have made him the opposite, cold and calculating but i guess they had that already with Ivan which brings me to Mickey himself. I thought he was good but not great as Whiplash. Scarlett Johannson was excellent as Agent Romanov (they chose not to use her codename of Black Widow interestingly enough perhaps saving it for the Avengers) and I enjoyed all of her scenes in the movie. I still maintain that Emily Blunt would have been just as spectacular in this role but Scarlett was great. I wish they would have given her 'Tasha's Russian accent but I touched on that in an earlier post in this thread...perhaps in the Avengers movie or a spin off which has already been talked about. Nick Fury...love Sam Jackson's performance he oozes Ultimate General Fury and I loved seeing the 'Avengers Initiative" folder along with the SHIELD logo in his office which I suppose was inside his office in a SHIELD Hellicarrier which I think I really really want to see (maybe in the Avengers movie). Gwyneth did another great job as Pepper, she seems to really enjoy this role and it shows in her performance and we finally get a relationship pay off between her and Tony. Robert is spectacular as Tony once again. One of my favorite moments is when Agent Caulsson discovers he has Captain America's shield and asks him if he knows what this is and Tony takes it and says yes I know exactly what it's for and uses it to balance the particle accelerator lol.

    So yes overall while I enjoyed it as a pop corn flick I felt like it could have been so much more than it was...I voted Above Average.
     
  9. captcalhoun

    captcalhoun Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Iron Man 2 - Grading & Discussion Thread (spoilers guaranteed)

    the scene with Tony and Fury was in a warehouse. did you miss the establishing shots?
     
  10. Hermiod

    Hermiod Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Iron Man 2 - Grading & Discussion Thread (spoilers guaranteed)

    I'm guessing Tony made a deliberate exception for Rhodey.

    They weren't able to fly in a straight line long enough. They were taking evasive action to avoid getting hit.

    :whistle:

    Nobody is more critical of this kind of scene than me, but watching it with my eyes fully prepared to start rolling, I didn't really see her do anything that ridiculous.

    It's not like the infamous Battlestar Galactica Starbuck vs Apollo boxing match.
     
  11. DarthPipes

    DarthPipes Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Iron Man 2 - Grading & Discussion Thread (spoilers guaranteed)

    That was Ron Moore's massive hard-on for Starbuck. Add to it as well the aforementioned Dollhouse scene with Echo going toe-to-toe with Ballard.

    I have to say, I liked Paltrow once again on Iron Man. She's might be the best of the superhero love interets in these films. She actually brings something to the table and the at least the two Iron Man films didn't revolve their final battle around Tony having to rescue her from the villain. Unlike Spider-Man, where all three fucking films ended with Spider-Man having to rescue Mary Jane.
     
  12. Checkmate

    Checkmate Commodore

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    Re: Iron Man 2 - Grading & Discussion Thread (spoilers guaranteed)

    Rhodey didn't steal the armor. Tony clearly repurposed and authorized that particular suit for him. Tony was talking about unauthorized people trying to steal the suit.
     
  13. Hermiod

    Hermiod Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Iron Man 2 - Grading & Discussion Thread (spoilers guaranteed)

    That would be the other best example of ridiculously unrealistic intergender cinema combat.

    Yeah, that's three whole films where I've been able to tolerate her now.
     
  14. FPAlpha

    FPAlpha Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Iron Man 2 - Grading & Discussion Thread (spoilers guaranteed)

    Above Average.. barely.

    It was not as good as the first one.. overall not as funny, the story didn't flow well enough and the plot holes were far bigger.

    It was a good movie but on its own it had many logical flaws that i just can't overlook because they are glaring.

    - the army surely wouldn't let the newly aquired armor immediately into action. They were itching to get their hands on it and when they do they bolt on some weapons and display it for everybody to see instead of dismantling it to the last screw and analyzing it to be able to make their own versions. I won't even get into the legal side of an army member practically stealing civilian property and giving it over to the army,

    - i liked the aspect of the tech killing Stark but when all hope seems lost they pull out the deus ex machine in the body of his father who came up with a solution from a technological level 30 years before :rolleyes: Killed the entire plot and made it totally unnecessary for the entire movie to a point where i ask myself why put it in in the first place? Let Stark become an alcoholic and deal with that properly and without a magical solution

    - Pepper Potts and Stark becoming a couple in the end.. WTF? :wtf::wtf: I loved the lingering sexual tension in the first movie and would have liked to see that continue because it was fun and a good angle between the characters but getting them together is just a bad idea. Tony needs to be a playboy and Potts needs to be his anchor when everything else fails.. i don't see this working within a relationship.

    These were my major points of critcism in an otherwise quite entertaining movie.. i liked Favreau as Hogan getting more screen time, as well as Fury and the Avengers Inititative being ramped up but the cake was Scarlet Johannsen who was so delicious i have no proper words :drool:

    And the best.. Hammer time! :techman::techman:
     
  15. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Iron Man 2 - Grading & Discussion Thread (spoilers guaranteed)

    Enjoyable. I wouldn't call it a perfect movie, but it was enjoyable and solid entertainment.

    I thought they overdid things a little by making Hammer basically an mirror/evil Stark. But, not really being familiar with the comics, I suppose it's possible that's probably how they presented the character. I thought it was too far, but whatever. Minor complaint, really.

    I was surprised how little Nick Fury was involved, as I was under the impression he'd have a bigger role than he did.
     
  16. Dream

    Dream Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Iron Man 2 - Grading & Discussion Thread (spoilers guaranteed)

    When you look at it, both Hammer and Ivan were both presented as mirror/evil versions of Stark. Hammer was the weapons seller and Ivan was the inventor/fighter. They were going for the Batman Returns villains route I guess.

    Hopefully they use the Mandarin in Iron Man 3.
     
  17. DarthPipes

    DarthPipes Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Iron Man 2 - Grading & Discussion Thread (spoilers guaranteed)

    You see, I thought the reason they avoided a relationship after the first movie is that it would just make her look bad. He just promoted her to CEO and now she's dating him? That would totally give the impression that she only got her position because she was sleeping with him.

    BTW, got a kick out of the O'Reilly Factor cameo. It was so in-character too.
     
  18. Checkmate

    Checkmate Commodore

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    Re: Iron Man 2 - Grading & Discussion Thread (spoilers guaranteed)

    Hammer's always been a sleazy and subpar version of Tony for as long as I can remember. The bit with the X-Wife was a perfect example of the character. Hammer thought it was the shit and presented it as such, but it turned out to be totally worthless. Just like most of the second-hand quality gear he puts out compared to Stark Enterprises.

    I dunno. I think a lot of people's disappointment is coming from the movie not catering to what they were expecting and less to the movie actually sucking to any significant degree. Most of the comments in this thread alone lean that way.
     
  19. Dick Whitman

    Dick Whitman Commodore Commodore

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    Re: Iron Man 2 - Grading & Discussion Thread (spoilers guaranteed)

    Jon Favreau seems to fallen victim to the often repeated myth that Superhero sequels are easier than origin stories. So a lot of craftsmanship went to making that origin story work. As a result all that work was apparent. But seemed to think think they could coast with the sequel. Its just the "Hero vs Villian". Easy and obvious. Not in a good way.
     
  20. Daneel

    Daneel Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: Iron Man 2 - Grading & Discussion Thread (spoilers guaranteed)

    I thought it was enjoyable, but a little lightweight at times. I definitely preferred the first Iron Man. RDJ is once again the best thing about the movie, keeping things entertaining even when the movie startes to get bogged down. Despite Stark's over-the-top nature and "textbook narcissism", he keeps the character likable and grounded. Plus, Tony's banter-filled relationship with Paltrow's Pepper Potts remains as delightful as ever.

    Scarlett looked great, I can't deny, but I don't think she was given anything too interesting to do. She lacked a certain depth, and if she's in any future installments, I hope this problem is corrected.

    Ivan Vanko could've used some more fleshing out as well, and I personally thought his climactic battle with Stark and Rhodey was a bit on the short side. Yeah, I don't like it when stuff gets dragged out either, but I think a few more minutes might have been beneficial.

    I had fun overall, though. Above average, but nowhere near excellent.