Intrepid class VS a galaxy class, which was more powerful and advanced

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Voyager' started by kent, Jan 22, 2009.

  1. EmperorTiberius

    EmperorTiberius Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2009
    Re: Intrepid class VS a galaxy class, which was more powerful and adva

    That's not what the episode shows. Defiant blew up little bugs because it closed to within 500 meters before opening fire. Galaxy class couldn't do that due to being much less manuevarable and had to engage at distance. Even then, it took a kamikaze attack agains damaged Odyssey to bring her down. Defiant was better suited to engaging small ships at close range, which is what she does throughout the series. You don't see her attack the Vor'cha in Way of the Warrior do you?

    And as I said, it's not an arbitrary statement. It's how the real world as well as Star Trek works. In Star Trek, bigger ships have always had all sorts of advantages over smaller ships. What other instances other than the Defiant are you reffering to? Defiant was the only exception, and even then, they made the effort to show how it was negatively affected by so much power, including its speed being limited to Warp 9.5. Its main phasers are so powerful because they are of the pulse variety and because they drain power directly from the EPS, which is something that is not done with regular ships. Never are such statements made in connection with Voyager. Voyager is decribed as "Not as big as the Galaxy class, but she is quick and smart." That's markedly different from "Not as big as Galaxy, but vastly more powerful". Defiant was built as a warship from ground up (main asset being it's manuevarability and abletive armor against Borg), while Voyager is a small exploration vessel given to a science captain.

    A bigger ship like the Galaxy would have:
    1. Bigger and/or more shield generators.
    2. Bigger warp core (12 decks as opposed to 6 IRCC?)
    3. Longer phaser arrays with more space inside to house the supporting equipment
    4. Better torpedo launchers. Those launchers on the Galaxy seem to be 30-50 meters long.
    5. More computer cores
    6. All sorts of reduntant systems like extra transporters, shuttles (including 2 runabouts), cargo space, fuel space, larger torpedo complement, spare parts, etc etc..

    It's very, very unlikely that in 7 years all those systems would have changed so much that they could be minituarized by a factor of 10. If by some crazy remote chance they did, Starfleet would have never built Galaxy, Sovereign or any of the other big ships in the first place, knowing that such technology is just around the corner. That being said, we see new Galaxies being built on a couple of occasions on Utopia Planitia (one of them at the same time as Voyager), so all new technologies will be part of the new ships.

    As for the speed issue, Enterprise had a maximum speed of 9.3 and was the fastest ship in the fleet if I'm not mistaken, but later in the show, that moves up to 9.6 without any external changes to the ship. When Voyager comes around, there is a new maximum speed, and then Prometheus takes over the mantle. The general trend in Starfleet seems to be that the speeds go up all the time, there is no reason to believe that all ships are not there and therebouts. Nebula seems to catch up to Prometheus just fine in "Message in the Bottle." Prometheus and Intrepid might still be the fastest in terms of sustainable cruise, or they might not, we don't know how it all works when it comes to speed because, as someone pointed out, warp coils, warp field geometry, etc all play a part.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2011
  2. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2008
    Location:
    England
    Re: Intrepid class VS a galaxy class, which was more powerful and adva

    Ignoring the technical manuals (because the writers of the shows did), Voyager and the Enterpise-D had the same capabilities. They flew the same kind of missions without trouble. Enterprise could seperate, Voyager could land, but that was it. Everything else is meaningless technobabble.
     
  3. Deks

    Deks Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2003
    Re: Intrepid class VS a galaxy class, which was more powerful and adva

    The Defiants proximity to the JemHadaar ships was of little consequence.
    Phasers have a maximum effective range of 300 000 km, and from a visual point of view, the Oddysey was at the same distance from the bugs just like the Defiant was.
    The bugs were coming AT the Galaxy class and were a stones throw away.

    1. We have no concrete evidence that suggests a larger ship would have 'more shield generators'. In fact, most of the evidence points to 1 primary and 1 auxiliary generator... the rest are emitters for coverage purposes.
    2. Large warp core doesn't equate 'more power'. It could though mean that the Galaxy class can go on for 5 years without refilling, whereas Voyager can do 3 at same power levels.
    Each ship comes with it's own warp core design on purpose. The inherent core design on Voyager could implement compression techniques that only work on that type of core in the first place and cannot be implemented on larger ones. The resulting effect would produce equal power generation to that of a Galaxy class, but because it's producing those levels of energy and the core is of that size, the core 'empties' faster.
    3. Longer phaser arrays were never associated with more power on-screen. Mere coverage is all I saw when it came to canon evidence. Voyager can sport enough space for it's own phaser arrays just fine. And in case you hadn't noticed, the ship has much fewer crew size and 'amenities' compared to the Galaxy class (all of which can contribute easily to better defenses and offenses).
    4. Canon source that the torpedo tubes on the Galaxy class are 30 to 50 meters long?
    5. 0 evidence that there is more than 1 primary and 1 auxiliary computer core onboard ANY SF ship.
    6. More space goes in favor to the Galaxy as it can house more supplies/torpedoes and resources to last them longer... Voyager can hold fewer torpedoes/supplies and resources due to it's much smaller volume, but it would be appropriate for a ship that size and that ships' core can still go on for 3 years compared to the Galaxy class 5 years mark (which again doesn't equate that the Galaxy would be able to churn out more power).

    Yes, ships have been progressively becoming faster over time, but the point remains, Voyager can generate enough power from the get go to sustain a cruising speed of 9.975, whereas the Galaxy class maximum war was enhanced by 0.3 (and is STILL lower than Voyager's) in 7 years.

    As for the Nebula class ships catching up to the Prometheus.
    That depends from which direction they were coming at the ship, and how far away they initially were, and a plethora of other aspects one would have to take into account.
    Plus, we don't know if the Prometheus was pushing maximum warp prior to the time of combat.

    Incidentally, Voyager, the Defiant and Sovereign class ships were made after the Borg attack in BoBW.
    They had motivation to design/construct smaller and more powerful ships because they knew the idea probably had merit and they would save up on construction times as well.
    And holding off on the Galaxy class because they might have known the tech 'is just around the corner' is a bit idiotic.
    They made that class of ship for exploratory purposes apparently, and there's no reason to think they would not build it either way.
     
  4. EmperorTiberius

    EmperorTiberius Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2009
    Re: Intrepid class VS a galaxy class, which was more powerful and adva

    Hmm, to each his own I guess. When they offer you the commission, you can take Intrepid, I'll stick to Galaxy or Sovereign...after all, that's where T'Girl is going to be, right? :D
     
  5. exodus

    exodus Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2003
    Location:
    The Digital Garden
    Re: Intrepid class VS a galaxy class, which was more powerful and adva

    I'd say there near equal due to tactical reasons.
    the Enterprise is bigger, so it may carry more fire power but it was my understanding Voyager's tech is equal to the Enterprise just smaller and faster.
    I would guess due to that, the ENT would have a harder time getting a solid target lock on a smaller faster moving object allowing Voy. to hit vital spots on the ENT. disabling it.
    That was the idea behind the Defiant.
    Smaller, faster to hit vital areas with greater success.
    I would assume the fight between ENT. & Voy. would be like an OX trying to swat a fly with it's tail. That Ox might get a direct hit on that fly eventually but not before that fly has annoyed that Ox to no end.
     
  6. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2009
    Location:
    T'Girl
    Re: Intrepid class VS a galaxy class, which was more powerful and adva

    it might be more accurate to say the Enterprise possesses more shield capacity, owing to it's large size and the need to enclose it.

    A ships warp core is it's energy source, it's engine. All things being equal, a physically larger engine denotes more ability to generation power.

    But that's not the warp core, that would be the antimatter storage or bottles, which are separate.

    These two statements counterdict each other. If phaser emissions don't lose power over distance, then there wouldn't be a maximum effective range of only a single light second.

    The phaser array isn't just what you see running along the outside of the hull. There would be a internal mechanism extending down into the ship. Regardless of the length of the strip, Voyager has less internal volume to have the same size mechanism as the Enterprise.

    :)
     
  7. Deks

    Deks Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2003
    Re: Intrepid class VS a galaxy class, which was more powerful and adva

    Simply speaking = possible but unlikely given other on-screen evidence.

    In real life perhaps... nothing in trek we've seen indicates that a large core is able to output higher energy levels.

    Voyager... early seasons, Janeway mentions during a tour that her ships Warp Core is able to go on for 3 years without refilling.
    This can be superimposed onto other ships most-likely in terms of how long can a ship's core operate at peak efficiency before it has to be replenished.
    The Enterprise-D was not mentioned on-screen that it can go on for 5 years in deep space, rather it's a non-canon statement (apparently per the TM - which isn't canon)... I'm only entertaining the notion for comparative purposes.
    In which case, a smaller ship like the Intrepid could produce equal power levels like the Galaxy, but 'burn itself out' after 3 years, whereas the Galaxy can last 2 years extra.

    They do not contradict each other.
    I said the maximum effective range of phasers is 1 light second.
    Just because we've seen ships within spitting distance to one another demonstrates idiocy of the VFX department in an attempt to make things look 'cool'.

    Doesn't matter.
    If the Defiant was able to pulverize the Dominion bug ships with pulse phasers at equally close range like the Oddysey was, then it demonstrates that small ships like the Defiant can be comparable or surpass larger ones in terms of destructive fire power.
    Remember that the Defiant is a ship which was completely stripped down of virtually all luxuries which likely contributed to it being 'overpowered'.

    In the same regard, the Intrepid class of the 24th century only has 2 holodecks and we've seen it house a crew of only 150.
    Given the very small amount of 'amenities' for the crew on the Intrepid, it's core could probably easily power weapons and shields to the same levels of those on the Galaxy class.

    As I said, equal power capacity in a smaller package, but the core empties faster compared to larger ships.

    Same is most likely evident for the Defiant.

    The Galaxy class can last longer in deep space due to it's size, but smaller ships producing such power levels would likely last shorter amount of time.

    This wouldn't eliminate larger ships from the equation though.
    Why would it?
    SF sees it perfectly amicable to construct large ships and supplement their fleet with smaller ones of equal fire power/defenses which would usually be situated close to home or serve for deep space exploration (though in shorter intervals) like in the case of the Intrepid class (it's more than capable after all).
     
  8. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2009
    Location:
    T'Girl
    Re: Intrepid class VS a galaxy class, which was more powerful and adva

    And you also said that Defiant being close to the Jem'Hadar ship when it fired, delivered to the Starfleet vessel little advantage.

    A phaser beam having a maximum range of only 300,000 kilometres, as opposed to more distance, means that the beam ceases to be a effective weapon upon exceeding that distance. It's no longer effective enough to reasonable be expected to damage it's target. In normal space, the beam would continue, it would not simply stop dead at 300,000 kilometres.

    Conclusion, the sooner the beam strikes it's target, the more effective (and powerful) it will be.

    Starships firing from a "point blank" distance of only a few kilometres or tens of kilometers, would serve the purpose of not allowing the phaser beam to begin the process of losing effectiveness. The Defiant's proximity to the Jem'Hadar vessels was of considerable consequence. It permitted the Defiant to do something that it wouldn't necessarily have been able to do from maximum range, damage and destroy the enemy.

    Unlike the contents of tech manuals, starships being "within spitting distance to one another" is a matter of canon, and the fact they do so has to be taken into account.

    :)
     
  9. jpch

    jpch Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2011
    Location:
    Delta Quadrant Borg Queen appartement 8472
    Re: Intrepid class VS a galaxy class, which was more powerful and adva

    you just hate the show admit it ur turning this into TNG vs VOY not worth my time.

    <<Owing to it small size and weight, Voyager is faster, and likely more maneuverable. Because of it's small warp field envelope, Voyager's warp core can produce less power and reach higher speeds. But that also mean less power for all those phaser strips>> i just explained to you in space weight doesent matter u still comback with kinda a retarded argument.
     
  10. BlackHowling

    BlackHowling Cadet Newbie

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2012
    Re: Intrepid class VS a galaxy class, which was more powerful and adva

    The Defiant Class was the first "Warship" designed by Starfleet. Though they defined her role as "Escort" Since warships went against the "Peaceful" exploration doctrine of the federation.

    Galaxy Class, Designed to be a Long Range Exploration/Science platform with a Large Crew compliment complete with modular labs. 340 degree phaser Coverage Dorsal 320 degree ventral. In other words plush crew comfort for extended missions.
    Length: 642.51 meters Width: 463.73 meters Height: 195.26 meters Weight: 4,500,000 metric tons 42 Decks

    Cruising Speed Warp 6
    Max Speed Warp 9.6 for 3 hours..

    Intrepid Class, Light Exploration/Scouting Basically the same as above Just scaled down. And intended to work either closer into federation space or as a support vessel in a larger fleet.
    Length: 352.5 meters Width: 144.84 meters Height: 55.42 meters Weight: 700,000 metric tons 15 Decks.
    Cruising Speed Warp 7.5
    Maximum Speed 9.975 for 13 hours


    So power wise, Galaxy Class but it's not really a fair comparison to be making.. It's like Comparing a Frigate to a Ship of the Line.. They each fill there designed roll better then the other could ever fill the others' roll so In my opinion it's a Tie between them..
     
  11. jpch

    jpch Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2011
    Location:
    Delta Quadrant Borg Queen appartement 8472
    Re: Intrepid class VS a galaxy class, which was more powerful and adva

    this is gonna keep going because fan boys refuse the truth,its too hard for them.

    lets try and make it realistic as possible.


    1-Shields : Intrepid are clearly more advanced(10years) capable of protecting the ship not from heavy fire but from many anomalies as well(''Scientific methode'' voyagers massive shields protected it inside 2 superstars)(''think tank'' Voy Shields repelled all damage from an Exploding planet,then protected the ship from a huge gas eruption)in addition with a mark9 warp core an intrepid can produce more power to go faster(warp 9.975) and reroute more energy to shields if needed.


    2-Hull : Hull integrity is determined by 3 factors overall Volume,armor,structural integrity fields.
    Volume goes to a Galaxy with X5 times the size of an intrepid.
    armor is the same on both these classes.(unarmored)
    integrity field clearly goes to Intrepid after what Voyager suffered in year of hell and kept going i think its not so hard for any person with a brain to admit that,and i recall so many times in TNG a few blows to the hull and captain warp core is overloading the ship is gonna be destroyed lol (USS Yamato,Odyssey,Enterprise D...list goes on)
    But with 5 times the hull volume i will be more then enough to match it.

    3-weapons:

    Phasers : Galaxy class 11 arrays Intrepid 14 arrays,clearly intrepid wins.
    something that people also should consider that we barely saw the galaxy firing more then 2 arrays at once while we have seen on screen the intrepid fire a lot more simultaneously.

    Torpedoes : Intrepid 4 launchers Galaxy 2 Launchers in numbers the advantage is for intrepid.

    Compliment: Galaxy wins this without a contest 250 is a huge amount,while the intrepid considering its volume only have 50 at its disposal.

    Warhead types : Galaxy is limited to mark4-5 photon torpedoes while an intrepid has mark6 and mark9(heavy yield)
    as well as spatial charges and tricobalt devices capable of making a tare in subspace far superior firepower but very small supply of them.

    Weapons wise the quantity and effeciency in long battles or multiple battles goes to the Galaxy tho quality wise and instant and fast assaults the advantage goes to the intrepid.

    do not post idiotic stuff like Galaxy class has larger arrays=more power,that was never stated on screen and people tend to forget that so many tiny ships produce far more firepower then large ones in trek universe like the Defiant or species 8472 bioships.


    4-Speeds :

    Galaxy class

    impulse engines : <.< not even a contest Galaxy in most battles is a slow as a snail,usually stationary in combat.

    Warp speed : very fast ship warp 9.6 max


    Intrepid class

    impulse engines : very fast and highly maneuverable only Federation starship that can maneuver the plasma storms int he badlans...we even saw the ships out-speed theta radiation wave at impulse etc...

    Warp speed : uber speed warp 9.975 fastest federation starship on record before the Prometheus class.


    All that i stated in on screen evidence and cannon,if want to argue try doing so with something genuine not stupid and illogical.

    The Verdict :

    Intrepid : Shields : 9/10

    Hull : 6/10

    Weapons: 7/10

    Speed : 10/10



    Galaxy : Shields : 7/10

    Hull : 8/10

    Weapons: 8/10

    Speed : 6/10


    those are the factors i think you should consider when comparing strength between ships in trek.
     
  12. kgartm1185

    kgartm1185 Lieutenant Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2013
    Location:
    USS Enterprise-D
    Re: Intrepid class VS a galaxy class, which was more powerful and adva

    Galaxy Class Uprated
    Length - 642 m.
    Beam - 470 m.
    Height - 145 m.
    Mass - 5,125,000 Metric Tons
    Crew - Over 1,000
    Weaponry - 14 Type X Phaser Arrays, 2 Type 6 Photon Torpedo Launchers, 250 Torpedoes
    Shields - Standard Shields, Capacity - 5,103,000 TeraJoules
    Maximum Warp - Warp 9.99
    Hull - Standard Duranium/Tritanium Double hull plus 9 cm High density armour.
    Force Fields - Standard Level Structural Integrity Field

    Intrepid Class
    Length - 343 m.
    Beam - 133 m.
    Height - 66 m.
    Mass - 700,000 Metric Tons
    Crew - 150
    Weaponry - 13 Type X Phaser Arrays, 4 Type 6 Photon Torpedo Launchers, 38 Torpedoes
    Shields - Standard Shields, Capacity - 729,000 TeraJoules
    Maximum Warp - Warp 9.975
    Hull - Standard Duranium/Tritanium Single hull
    Force Fields - Standard Level Structural Integrity Field

    Impulse Speed - Intrepid
    Warp Speed - Galaxy (After being uprated)
    Hull - Galaxy
    Weapons - Galaxy
    Shields - Galaxy
    Size - Galaxy

    So the Galaxy class obviously would win.
     
  13. KaraBear

    KaraBear Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2013
    Re: Intrepid class VS a galaxy class, which was more powerful and adva

    I think in a direct fight the Galaxy would win...BUT the Intrepid is faster and more maneuverable. It's also newer so it has more advanced technology like the gelpacks
     
  14. Shat Happens

    Shat Happens Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2013
    Re: Intrepid class VS a galaxy class, which was more powerful and adva

    I believe a galaxy was destroyed when an enemy ship rammed it, so there is a canonic weakness.

    Given Janeway's inclination to crash Voyager into things, I'd say the Galaxy is toast or at least in serious danger.
     
  15. KaraBear

    KaraBear Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2013
    Re: Intrepid class VS a galaxy class, which was more powerful and adva

    she only did that once in Year of Hell
     
  16. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2009
    Location:
    T'Girl
    Re: Intrepid class VS a galaxy class, which was more powerful and adva

    The thing there is, if the gel packs (or any new equipment built into the intrepids) were shown to be of an advantage, the gel packs would be retrofitted into all Starfleet vessels. Not just the galaxys, but also older ships like the excelsiors.

    It's not like the various ships would have to be physically torn apart in the process, just find room and install the gel pack system, "hard wire" it into the existing computer system.

    Something like the defiant might have trouble finding room, but not a ship like a galaxy.

    :)
     
  17. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2012
    Location:
    Shangri-La
    Re: Intrepid class VS a galaxy class, which was more powerful and adva

    I guess the people who think newer automatically means better also think the USS Missouri had the same armament in 1991 that it did in 1945.
     
  18. TheSubCommander

    TheSubCommander Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    May 5, 2013
    Re: Intrepid class VS a galaxy class, which was more powerful and adva

    If Troi is at the helm of the Galaxy Class ship, it's a wash though.
     
  19. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2008
    Location:
    England
    Re: Intrepid class VS a galaxy class, which was more powerful and adva

    The writers of the shows never read the technical manuals so none of those statistics mean anything.
     
  20. kgartm1185

    kgartm1185 Lieutenant Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2013
    Location:
    USS Enterprise-D
    Re: Intrepid class VS a galaxy class, which was more powerful and adva

    But larger ships tend to have better defences and more capabilities.

    Sovereign Class
    Phasers - 12 Type XII Phaser Arrays
    Torpedoes - 1 Type 2 Quantum Torpedo Tube/ 4 Type 9 Torpedo Tubes/ 200 Torpedoes
    Shields - Standard Shield Generator - 4,590,000 TeraJoules
    Hull Armor - Heavy Double Hull & 10 cm Armor
    Maximum Warp - Warp 9.99

    Galaxy class Uprated
    Phasers - 14 Type X Phaser Arrays
    Torpedoes - 2 Type 9 Torpedo Tubes/ 250 Torpedoes
    Shields - Standard Shield Generator - 5,103,000 TeraJoules
    Hull Armor - Heavy Double Hull & 9 cm Armor
    Maximum Warp - Warp 9.99

    Defiant class
    Phasers - 4 Rapid Fire Pulse Phaser Cannons, 1 Type X Phaser Bank
    Torpedoes - 2 Quantum Torpedo Tubes/ 2 Type 7 Torpedo Tubes/ 120 Torpedoes
    Shields - Auto Modulated Shield Generator - 2,376,000 TeraJoules
    Hull Armor - Heavy Double Hull & 20 cm Armor
    Maximum Warp - Warp 9.5