Intrepid class VS a galaxy class, which was more powerful and advanced

Discussion in 'Voyager' started by kent, Jan 22, 2009.

  1. ProwlAlpha

    ProwlAlpha Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Re: Intrepid class VS a galaxy class, which was more powerful and adva

    Like the previous poster said, as of the present time (Trek Time), the Galaxy and the Intrepids were both continually upgraded, with that said, I would venture that the Galaxy Class would win out because the Galaxy Class had more powerful phasers (given the length of the phaser strips), two torpedo launchers capable of firing ten torpedos each and in quick succession, bigger crew (more crewmembers, more damage control), and the fact that the same or improved technology on a smaller vessel does equate the two vessels.

    Galaxy Class had the role of a battlecruiser/battleship (similar to the HMS Hood, the Hood would been more powerful if the planned refit was able to be implented) The Galaxy Class was fast, powerful, and the perfect image of Federation might.

    Intrepid Class can be inferred that they are a powerful light cruiser (one in similar role to the Deutschland Class, in which a couple of the members took on larger and/more vessels) The Intrepid was fast, innovative, and perfect for first strike and retreat missions.
     
  2. Praetor

    Praetor Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Intrepid class VS a galaxy class, which was more powerful and adva

    It's important the remember that the production designers sometimes referred to Voyager as the equivalent of a destroyer to the Enterprise's battleship.
     
  3. Xerxes1979

    Xerxes1979 Captain Captain

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    Re: Intrepid class VS a galaxy class, which was more powerful and adva

    Galaxy class rules all. The only specific advantage the Intrepid class has is higher max warp speed.

    Given how often Voyager was running out of energy and other critical supplies I would take the superior endurance of the Galaxy in any deep space mission.

    Also raw speed is not the end all and be all of total computer power. Storage is also key. The Binars sought out the Enterprise for a reason. The Enterprise has three huge and reduant computer cores.

    I have never been sold on the usefulness of bio-neural packs either. I fail to see how such a system can lead to any net increase in processing speed. Iso-linear chips are already operating FTL.

    If Seven had the resources of a Galaxy class computer system and astrometrics lab, which races would have stood in Janeway's path?
     
  4. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Intrepid class VS a galaxy class, which was more powerful and adva

    And the Odyssey lasted about 12 seconds against the Jem'hadar and Mirror Enterprise in Yesterdays Enterprise, Picard and Riker talked a good game, but fuck it, they didn't get a shot off before the Klingons murdered them

    But what about the names?

    Galaxy Class is just about limitations, since on one hand you can say "We can travel the entire galaxy!" compared to "We can only travel this galaxy" which is a bald faced lie really since the Federation had only explored 1/12 of the Galaxy by 2366... It's kind of like how your kid gets super drunk on power because you let her back the car out of the garage and down the driveway for you.

    Meanwhile... The only Starship Intrepid I know about was that ship crewed completely by Vulcans from the Immunity Syndrome. Xenophobic isolationists creating a bolt hole complaining about the superluminal stink created by human beings surrounded by an egregious society of hand holding communists... Who got ate by a microbe the size of a star system? Bigots doomed by the ridiculous and unlikely Class of Starship more likely... But whoever was in charge of naming these things had a bit of a sense of Humour since if you'd care to recall the megadeath associated with the V'Ger Rampage from 2279... What next? The USS Herman Goeing?
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2009
  5. Praetor

    Praetor Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Intrepid class VS a galaxy class, which was more powerful and adva

    :rommie:
     
  6. jpch

    jpch Commander Red Shirt

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    Re: Intrepid class VS a galaxy class, which was more powerful and adva

    Stupid people saying stupid stuff as usual.

    1-intrepid is not a science vessel or a patrol ship or a light cruiser( there is no canonical on screen evidence)cause it was armed with 14 phaser arrays and had 4 torp launchers lol,galaxy class has 12 arrays and 2 launchers. ur gonna say a galaxy can fire more maybe. or maybe not coz voy was always using torp as a last resort since they were 70 years away from the nearest starbase,on some occasions voy displayed a large firepower ( dark frontier voy fired 6 photon torpedoes in a row in 1.5 sec. episode night they fired 5 then 3 aft rapidly)

    2-the intrepid was the most technologically advanced ship starfleet had at the time. its shields were quite superior then a galaxy class as we have seen them protect the ship inside a star or even an exploding planetoid (eps: scientific method/think tank)
    in addition they could handle multiple barrages from 3 vidiian warships(resolutions) im not gonna talk about the kazon since they were inferior to the fed when it comes to tech but the vidiians were as advanced or even more then the federation.
    plus Voyagers shields survived an assault from a borg tactical cube,ofc the ship was damaged but the shields were clearly far more advanced from a galaxy the never got drained or taken offline.( people with arguments like plot holes/writers wanted that need to wake up writers can do whatever they want) anything that happens on screen is cannon and is not be questioned.

    3-jery taylor ( writer in DS9 and VoY) stated that voy is smaller then a galaxy but outmatches it in tech and speed. Rick sternbach ( creator of both the galaxy and intrepid models and schematics) stated that intrepid has the same phaser arrays as galaxy (now ur gonna say that the galaxy has more power output,i will explain how that is untrue)

    4- if u know physics or at least logic u will understand that Size and weight in space are irrelevant=> meaning that the more power u produce the faster u can move. intrepids max speed is warp 9.975 while galaxy can reach 9.6 or 9.8 and might risk ripping itself apart (stated on screen) clearly intrepid has a far more advanced and powerful warp core( the first mark 9 core voy was the first ship to test its power episode relativity) thus voyager has same if not more power output then the galaxy for its phasers and shields and speed.
    in addition on season 3 in tng they said that the galaxy has mark 4 photon torpedoes quite powerful,but on episode scorpion of voy they said that an intrepid has mark 6 photon torp far more powerful then a galaxy,altho the compliment of a galaxy is alot larger.
    plus voy had 2 tricobalt devices their yield is massive( they destroyed a huge array) and were able to rip a hole in subspace clearly even more powerful then quantum torpedoes,tho the intrepid only carries 2 of them.

    for the people who said voy had trouble vs the kazon maybe they need to go back and watch the series again,the kazon never had a chance in basics they took over the ship coz of the guy who exploded himself inside causing a huge power drain.
    the klingon old cruiser fired at least 5 torp and 2 disruptor blasts on the aft side and voy aft shield went down to 55% then with 3 phaser shots the cruiser was totally disabled and almost destroyed.

    A Romulan warbird was stated on Tng episode Tin man something (forget the name watched it 15 years ago) to be more powerful then a galaxy class,also with a single barrage from it the enterprise D shields went down from 100 to 30% and picard stated that they could have destroyed us if the wanted to.
    on voy episode learning curve,intrepid battles 1 warbird barely holding on and then battles 2 warbirds and get destroyed quite easily.

    i think both ships are almost identical with combat potential,intrepid has the agility and tech advantage and more energy reserves for shields from its core while the galaxy has the large resources(more torp) and its big size(more hull strength) advantage.
    both vessels have been stated on screen to be explorer type ships and not made for combat but are well equipped to defend themselves or launch a counter attack. keep in mind that the galaxy has alot of luxuries like 16 holodecks 5 massive saloons,a large theater,10 gyms,schools,civilians on board its clearly not a battleship since all of those things require a lot of power and drain to keep them active,while the intrepid is stripped form all onthose extras just has what it needs. the intrepid is slightly a superior vessel combat wise.
     
  7. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Intrepid class VS a galaxy class, which was more powerful and adva

    I think the ships were as powerful as the writers wanted them to be in each episode. Heck, the Enterprise-E magically sprouted a dozen new torpedo tubes during Nemesis. The TOS Enterprise had it's warp drive pimped by the Kelvans to speeds well over warp 10, only for warp 6 to be their maximum speed a few episodes later:vulcan:
     
  8. Sandoval

    Sandoval Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Re: Intrepid class VS a galaxy class, which was more powerful and adva

    And breathe...
     
  9. jpch

    jpch Commander Red Shirt

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    Re: Intrepid class VS a galaxy class, which was more powerful and adva

    excited first post :) and something i really care about.
     
  10. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Intrepid class VS a galaxy class, which was more powerful and adva

    We've seen the Enterprise fire ten torpedoes at once, out of a single tube, indicating that her tubes possess a larger diameter.

    And the number of phaser strips has to do with covering firing arcs, and nothing to do with fire power. You can fire from a single "spot' on one strip with 100% of available power, or ten spots simultaneously with 10% power. If the Voyager possessed 120 strips, that would not give her 10 time the fire power of a Enterprise.

    And apparently had the manufacturing ability to make more.

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but Voyager fired them one at a time.

    Hey, remember when the Enterprise's chief medical officer (while in command) did that for the first time, years before Voyager did?

    While the Enterprise's shield survived an attack from a Borg full size cube.

    Verbal statements by the production staff, while interesting, are non-canon.

    Hardly, the Enterprise greater size requires a larger warp field enclosure, and therefor greater power generation. Power that if feed into the weapons system (or other systems) would exceed Voyager generation capacity.

    Owing to it small size and weight, Voyager is faster, and likely more maneuverable. Because of it's small warp field envelope, Voyager's warp core can produce less power and reach higher speeds. But that also mean less power for all those phaser strips.


    Yet in spite of this "fact," the Enterprise can cruise for long periods of time at warp speed, while the Voyager for some reason is frequently seen in the middle of interstellar space traveling at impulse speeds (no pretty streaky lights).

    The AIM 7 (sparrow) missile has a 88 pound warhead, a AIM 9 (sidewinder) missile has a 20.8 pound warhead.

    Simply having a higher number, doesn't automatically indicate a more powerful weapon. The Voyager torpedoes might carry a different model number, because her torpedo tubes are smaller.

    If Voyager can carry them, likely other Starfleet ships can carry them as well. Various types of US Navy submarines carry the same model of torpedo.

    Would Picard, Kirk or Sisko have fallen for the same trick?

    Yes, quite old.

    the majority of Starfleet starship are "multi-mission.

    We've seen LaForge divert power, and turn off unnecessary systems before.

    :)
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2011
  11. Lt. Beatings

    Lt. Beatings Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    Re: Intrepid class VS a galaxy class, which was more powerful and adva

    Voyager was packing quantums, so maybe a chance against the Enterprise D
     
  12. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Intrepid class VS a galaxy class, which was more powerful and adva

    Unless the Enteprise happen to be also carrying some that week.
     
  13. Deks

    Deks Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: Intrepid class VS a galaxy class, which was more powerful and adva

    Lt. Beatings

    Voyager was actually launched with Photon torpedoes (type 6), though it was stated in one of the episodes that the Cardassian dreadnought which they found carried Quantum torpedoes and that they could be adapted to work with Voyager's launchers.
    So, the ship is capable of carrying them.

    The Sierra Pattern.
    I remember Janeway ordering the same firing pattern in 'Basics' (we never got to see it visually, but it was probably the same thing as the Enterprise D employed).
    What we saw on TNG could have been 10 micro-torpedoes being fired from a single tube and not actual-sized ones.
    It was never explained fully... and we have no concrete information which says that the torpedo launchers on the Enterprise-D were any larger than the ones on the Intrepid.
    The D displayed this ability only twice in early TNG.
    Later seasons completely disregarded this ability and showed the ship firing one torpedo at a time.

    I agree that the amount of phaser strips is predominantly there for coverage, BUT, it was never mentioned officially (on-screen) just how the phaser strips worked.
    To that end, the size of the arrays could have next to 0 meaning in terms of firepower and would only be there to allow for better coverage/firing angles, nothing else.

    It was stated in early Season 1 of Voyager by Janeway that they could not replace the torpedoes once they were gone.
    However, it was NOT stated whether they had the ability to manufacture more if they had proper materials at their disposal.
    It's not that hard to think that Voyager would have refilled their Warp core at critical junctures and traded with races that have antimatter in abundance, allowing the crew to make new torpedoes.
    Or the crew could have found other ways to augment their antimatter reserves (omicron particles aren't the only source after all) and would be able to replicate torpedoes in parts, and simply separate enough anti-matter to fill the new torpedoes and replenish their supplies.
    In Trek reality, the level of technology in the late 24th century (and even in the late 23rd century) was such that effectively allowed any SF ship to be completely self-sufficient if necessary.
    Pit stops in solar systems would be required from time to time, but the ships wouldn't have to depend on trading with other races to get supplies when they can make their own.

    [/quote]
    Hey, remember when the Enterprise's chief medical officer (while in command) did that for the first time, years before Voyager did?

    While the Enterprise's shield survived an attack from a Borg full size cube.
    [/quote]

    But Voyager's shields were already by nature alone multi-phasic - fully integrated, whereas the Enterprise-D at the time had the program separately.
    Size in Trek rarely matters when it comes to power output.
    The tactical cube was stated by 7 of 9 to be heavily armed.
    Plus, that tactical cube (if you hadn't seen 'Unimatrix Zero') was in fact quite large by itself (Voyager was tiny compared to it).
    It could be inferred that the Tactical Cube was an even more dangerous adversary than your 'full sized cube'.

    To that end, you freely ignore on-screen statements which say that Humans don't employ a money based economy.
    Plus others ignore that replicators turn energy into matter (as was repeatedly stated), not matter into matter.
    That's a very lovely way to ignore 'canon'.
    And should you mention how I was doing the same when making the case against evidence for usage of money on TOS, TNG and Ds9, I was trying to explain those relatively infrequent scenes in a manner that keeps the notion of a moneyless economy society which apparently has to deal with alien cultures and individuals who still employ a money-based economy.

    So the Galaxy is a larger ship than Voyager and needs a bigger warp field to accommodate itself. Lol.
    Doesn't mean Voyager would have to expend less power to achieve faster velocities...
    In fact, one could argue that if Voyager's Warp core can go on 3 years before it has to be refilled (and the Galaxy class 5 years), then it could stand to reason that it's because the class 9 Warp drive it employs simply demands so much power compared to the less capable engines of the Galaxy class.
    If you also recall, the Enterprise-D's top warp speed changed over time. It went from a maximum sustainable 9.3 (which was PAST the 'red line' in Encounter at Farpoint) to 9.6.
    We've seen small ships packing same or much larger firepower compared to capital ships.
    The Defiant comes to mind - and that thing is incapable of going past specific Warp factor even when shunting enough power to the engines.

    It could also mean that it requires less power to generate a warp field and achieve faster Warp speeds compared to other ships and have extra power to go into the shields and weapons.
    Double-edged sword.

    Voyager's top cruising speed (as mentioned on-screen):
    Warp 9.975.
    It was seen most of the times at Warp actually, and other times at impulse (usually when something else was going on that required the ship to be out of Warp - exploration for example - which Janeway did on a regular basis - and later admitted that they could have been closer to home had they not spent a lot of the time exploring other things).
    Oh and do correct me if I'm wrong, but during TNG, the Enterprise-D spend most of it's time skimming the edges of Federation space, always somehow being within an arms reach of Earth no less - instead of exploring the 'DEEP SPACE that lies beyond Federation territory') - plus it was at impulse most of the time.
    So I kinda have to laugh at your comparison.

    [/quote]
    The AIM 7 (sparrow) missile has a 88 pound warhead, a AIM 9 (sidewinder) missile has a 20.8 pound warhead.

    Simply having a higher number, doesn't automatically indicate a more powerful weapon. The Voyager torpedoes might carry a different model number, because her torpedo tubes are smaller.
    [/quote]

    I always found it laughable when people tried comparing contemporary technology with Trek's.
    Even Picard laughed at Ralph's attempt in 'the neutral zone' when he tried comparing the Ent-D to an aircraft carrier in the late 20th century.
    In the episode Dreadnought, Janeway mentioned that Voyager's type 6 photon torpedoes might just get through it's defenses because they were newer than the previous ones.
    This can easily imply that they ARE more powerful versions of Type 4 torpedoes that came before.

    I agree with the premise that if Voyager can carry tricobalt devices, then other SF ships might be able to do the same, but, we've only seen them employed on Voyager for one thing (thus far), and they blew up an alien station that was by all intense and purposes technologically superior to anything the Feds had in just 2 shots.
    Furthermore, it's possible Voyager had more of those, we've just never seen them in use because of their subspace disruptive capabilities (which is exactly why they wanted to use them to destroy a highly advanced alien station - circumstances were unique enough where usage of those weapons would be permitted - especially when maintaining the balance in the DQ was crucial).

     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2011
  14. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Intrepid class VS a galaxy class, which was more powerful and adva

    The Enterprise exhibited more than twice the ability to fire once, and have what it fired "mirv" into multiple torpedoes. The first time was in the third episode, and I watch Unnatural Selection a few days ago where the ability was used again. Voyager never displayed the ability to fire multiple torpedoes in a single launch.

    Given that the Enterprise can indeed fire a cluster of torpedoes together, this implies a larger launch tube.

    Janeway: "And no way to replace them after they're gone." The ship was only several weeks away from being brought into the Delta Quad which had badly damaged it, and Voyager was running very low on energy reserves. Possibly Janeway meant under the then current circumstances. Circumstances which did change over time,

    Point being the Enterprise developed the method years before Voyager was even constructed. Voyager was the beneficiary of the Enterprise's previous discovery.

    What does that have to do with this thread?

    What does that have to do with this thread?

    Ralph Offenhouse made reference to the Queen Elizabeth Two, a passager liner. And he wasn't comparing the two ships, he said Picard could take lessons from the QE Two in the area of efficient operations.

    Okay, you're wrong.

    The Enterprise spent a great deal of time well inside Federation territory, visiting previously contacted planets, Starbases, running medicine to Federation planets, twice in the first season alone they went to the neutral zone.

    They did venture outside the Federation on occasion. The Enterprise slowed to impulse upon arriving at a destination. Frequently Voyager was seen at impulse speeds at the beginning of episodes in interstellar space, prior to any cause for it.

    .
     
  15. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Intrepid class VS a galaxy class, which was more powerful and adva

    Voyager also had the Magic Shuttlebay, which was bigger on the inside than it was on the outside:techman:
     
  16. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Intrepid class VS a galaxy class, which was more powerful and adva

    To match her Captains ego, her Operations Officers confidence and her Helmboy's libido.
     
  17. Deks

    Deks Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: Intrepid class VS a galaxy class, which was more powerful and adva

    3 times (at best) in the original timeline and once in an alternate timeline did the Enterprise-D display multiple torpedoes fired simultaneously.
    All of which were in the early seasons.
    I also seem to recall them firing phasers from a TORPEDO TUBE (although this FX mishap happened on Voyager as well).

    Still, the ability to fire multiple torpedoes at once doesn't prove the Enterprise-D had a bigger launcher, or that Voyager didn't have same capabilities.
    Plus, the Enterprise-D in Season 4 and onward did not display these abilities.

    The later FX dumbed down technical capabilities of ships through ALL of the shows in later seasons to make it look 'dramatic' - and often, the superior abilities of ships were displayed as a 'one time thing, then later forgotten'.

    Have you also forgotten that the Enterprise-D had the capacity to traverse millions of Ly's in just a few hundred years in Season 1 after the traveller threw them well beyond their own galaxy?
    Oh that's right, I seem to recall that later on, the Warp capabilities were severely dumbed down.

    I'm glad we agree on something.
    :-)
    The point here is that replacing or manufacturing new torpedoes is probably something any star-ship can do if they have all of the materials.
    Most of the torpedo components can be replicated in parts and assembled later on when extra anti-matter is found or produced - which can easily mean that the ship simply made new ones while trading with cultures that were friendly (after they left Kazon territory of course).

    Actually, the shield program was developed by a Ferengi scientist.
    The Enterprise was also the beneficiary of the said invention much like Voyager was, only Voyager got it fully integrated (and it wouldn't be a stretch to think all other ships received this modification).

    I was commenting on how you previously selectively disregarded information stated as canon (as in what is presented on TV) when you mentioned that it's the only viable source that should be taken into account.

    And by that token alone he WAS making comparisons between the inner workings of a previous era ship to one that is taking place centuries later.
    Point being, making comparisons between such aspects is utterly pointless because the whole premise of the scene and the dealings with humans from the past was to illustrate the differences between humanity of the past and future.
    Ds9 often butchered this premise because they thought the viewers won't have anything to 'relate to' (utterly stupid in my personal opinion).

    Actually the Enterprise-D WAS in fact skimming on the edges of Federation space, with most of the time being inside of it - thank you for the addon btw, but one can 'skim' the edge of Federation space while still being inside of it.
    Point being, Enterprise-D was made for deep space exploration and it was shown to be doing anything but that.
    Voyager fulfilled that role instead.

    And as I already said, Voyager spent most of it's time at Warp during episode openings (maybe 60% or more).
    Other times, when it was at impulse, it was due to exploration or a problem that was happening.
    Nothing unusual - and perfectly justifiable.
    They are explorers btw (as Janeway frequently mentioned - plus she also said how exploratory missions added to the ship's trip back to the Alpha Quadrant).
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2011
  18. MacLeod

    MacLeod Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Intrepid class VS a galaxy class, which was more powerful and adva

    Just because i's the latest doesn't automatically mean it's the most powerful. We can infer from DSN, that Starfleet usually puts in warp cores with a suitable power output for a vessel of that size. The Defiant was stated to be overpowered for a ship of her size.

    As for Torpedeo's TNG took place in the era of 2364-2371ish, whilst Voyager takes place around 2371-2378. So perhaps by that time Starfleet was in the process of replacing the older torpedeos on all it's vessel. As the actual casing design seems to have changed little from at least the 2280's.

    Remember output from the warp core is only one part of forming a warp field. That's down to the nacelles and Warp Coils,
     
  19. EmperorTiberius

    EmperorTiberius Captain Captain

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    Re: Intrepid class VS a galaxy class, which was more powerful and adva

    One ship is 10x ( T E N T I M E S ) larger than the other! Let that sink in for a minute.

    No amount of "advancement" can overcome an order of magnitude in size in mere 7 years, unless Federation is advancing so fast that by the end of the 24th century, they've transmuted into Q. Neither real world, nor Star Trek universe work like that.

    You're dealing with a Heavy Cruiser/Light Frigate relationship. Perhaps Intrepid has the same mision profile as Galaxy, except with significantly reduced capabilities in order to facilitate faster and simpler construction times, and larger number of ships in order to cover a large area of space.

    Some of you have an admirable attitude towards "your" ship, but don't make her into something she's not.

    Length of these ships can be a bit misleading, but the total size paints a different picture. The front view of the two ships really puts them in their respective places.


    [​IMG]
    Uploaded with ImageShack.us


    Curtesy of Gilso's page: http://www.strekschematics.utvinternet.com/fleetchart/fedshipfleet/fedshipfleet.html
     
  20. Deks

    Deks Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: Intrepid class VS a galaxy class, which was more powerful and adva

    It was evident on more than one occasion in Trek that 'size doesn't matter'.
    The Defiant was much smaller than Voyager as well, and that ship was able to tear through a Jem'Hadaar attack fighter with ease whereas a Galaxy class could not an episode earlier.

    So... power-wise, the Defiant outclassed a Galaxy class.

    You cannot simply make an arbitrary statement that 'bigger=better'.
    SF was able to cram extremely powerful weapons onto a ship that's nothing more than a mosquito when compared to the Galaxy class... and come out partly victorious in a battle where the latter failed completely.

    Compared to the Galaxy class, Voyager has a minimum of 'recreational systems' that are abundant on Voyager and far larger crew compliment (for which the life support is a huge demand on power reserves alone).

    It's not a stretch to think that if the Defiant can accommodate very high power output, then Voyager most certainly could (plus the Intrepid had to have a powerful warp core for being able to achieve a sustainable cruise velocity of Warp 9.975 - which is orders of magnitude higher than the Enterprise-D because the incremental increases in warp factors as you get closer to Warp 10 threshold create exponential differential in speeds).
     

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