Into Darkness DS9 references (SPOILERS)

Discussion in 'Deep Space Nine' started by DS9forever, May 11, 2013.

  1. DS9forever

    DS9forever Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I'd love to hear Ira Steven Behr and Ronald D. Moore give their opinions on Section 31 being in the movie - its the biggest DS9 reference since the Defiant was in First Contact.
     
  2. Tosk

    Tosk Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    ^Section 31 featured quite prominently in Enterprise too.
     
  3. DS9forever

    DS9forever Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Sorry, I should have specified that I meant in the films; I suppose the Dominion was mentioned in Insurrection and the Dominion War in Nemesis, but they were more allusions than anything.
     
  4. Tosk

    Tosk Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Gotcha. :)
     
  5. toughlittleship

    toughlittleship Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Section 31 in the film isn't quite the same as it was in DS9 - it seemed to be more of a militia than a black ops organization.
     
  6. Yorkshire Niner

    Yorkshire Niner Captain Captain

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    Totally agree. As soon as Section 31 was mentioned (by that racist terrorist guy from ENT, weirdly enough!) I was so jazzed. "Fantastic!" I thought, "Abrams has made a Section 31 movie! At last!" That positivity and optimism carried right on upto the moment when John Harrison did his big identity reveal (after having the Enterprise's hairdresser sort him out in the ship's brig) and all my hopes for a genuinely creative and thought-provoking movie crumbled faster than Abrams' Vulcan. :sigh:

    For the record, I would argue that the existence of Section 31 is part of what makes (proper) Trek great - the shades of grey. Odo summed it up better than I could - in a universe where the Tal Shiar and the Obsidian Order exist, it is illogical to assume that the UFP wouldn't have something equally shady and nefarious.
     
  7. Yorkshire Niner

    Yorkshire Niner Captain Captain

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    I just thought "Oh you're borrowing from The Undiscovered Country too now, are you? Fascinating". :wtf:
     
  8. DarKush

    DarKush Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I was surprised by this to, that the Admiral was so forthcoming about the existence of Section 31. Though when you think about it, even DS9 and Enterprise sort of established that Section 31 hides in plan sight. That being said, on DS9 you got the impression that even the mention of Section 31 was a risky act.

    Someone in one of the Into Darkness threads suggested that the destruction of Vulcan had scared or hardened Starfleet/Federation enough to bring Section 31 more into the light and I can accept that. I mean they could argue that the destruction of Vulcan proved that they were right and were necessary to deal with other threats. (Though personally I think the film undercuts this by making the adversaries the admiral is gravely concerned over very weak).

    I had a feeling Section 31 would be in the movie after reading the Countdown to Darkness prequel. The story there gave me that kind of feeling and the aftermath made me real suspicious. As for the film itself, the admiral's plan did sort of fit in line with some of the crazy plans we've seen on DS9 and ENT. And I also got a vibe from the Section 31/DS9 novel "Abyss" with Harrison.
     
  9. DarKush

    DarKush Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I totally agree. Because when the big moment came I think the film started going off the rails for me. It was like the writers just couldn't contain the inner fanboys inside them and just had to go there. Perhaps not because they thought they could do it better but maybe just to put their own spin on it or to write a character they probably grew up wanting to play with.

    But that was totally unnecessary really for the story they were telling. Harrison was compelling enough. His motivation didn't even have to change. And if Harrison had been left alone I don't think the film would've veered (maybe) into a weak imitation of superior works.
     
  10. dub

    dub Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I've only seen it once, and I know it's not the right time period for it, and it may be wishful thinking but...

    did I see Scotty riding in a runabout when he first found the admiral's ship?

    Looked like it to me, but I'm sure someone here would know for sure.
     
  11. od0_ital

    od0_ital Admiral Admiral

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    ^

    That's just how the shuttles look in nuTrek.
     
  12. Bry_Sinclair

    Bry_Sinclair Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I'm not a huge S31 fan, but like Yorkshire Niner it added a great shade of grey to the Federation, that they will do what is needed to ensure their security. But a S31 spy-thriller would have been so much better.

    From Harrison's reveal the film went down hill, then when they were just repeating the script from TWOK it plummetted.
     
  13. DarKush

    DarKush Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I am a fan of Section 31. I like the shades of gray aspect a lot. I don't think Section 31 has always been depicted as the most competent organization though, and Into Darkness at least keeps that part going.
     
  14. NightJim

    NightJim Captain Captain

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    I got the impression that post-Vulcan he'd turned some areas of Section 31 into his own little fiefdom to prepare for the oncoming war, since they shared the same goals, roughly.


    I'd argue that ID is still a Section 31 film, but a S31 film shared with 'John Harrison'. Lets be honest, Kirk's trapped between the Machinations of the two, and it's only because its the Enterprise that neither win.
     
  15. bullethead

    bullethead Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Well, if you just stick to DS9, Section 31 is pretty competent. Their only failure happens when Bashir and O'Brien capture Sloan and enter his mind to get the cure to the Changeling virus.
     
  16. Yorkshire Niner

    Yorkshire Niner Captain Captain

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    Totally agree. I don't know if that TWOK scene was an attempt by Bad Robot's script monkeys to 'throw a bone' to us traditional Trekkies but I just felt insulted by it.
     
  17. M.A.C.O.

    M.A.C.O. Commodore Commodore

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    I literally laughed out loud in the theater the first time i saw it.
     
  18. starburst

    starburst Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    They seemed more like a special research branch tasked with developing experimental prototypes, long range stealth torpedoes and portable Transwarp Transporter devices to name 2.

    If I had to have an explanation for the change, what ever the reason be it the destruction of the Kelvin or Vulcan, S31 became more 'public' at least within Starfleet in a way that the secretive SAS became public knowledge. The public face is probably just the beginning with the R&D.

    Hide in plain site and all, better to have a cover for some of their goings on plus some of what they come up with can be fielded to improve the general fleet.
     
  19. dub

    dub Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    So it's not just me then. I thought I was the only one who felt that way. I couldn't stop face-palming in the theater. It's too bad, too, because for the most part I loved the first half of the film. But toward the end they went totally overboard with their version of a "Valentine to Trek fans." I don't mind throwing a quote in here and there, but there was way too much in the last half of the film. I just couldn't recover any positive feelings after
    Spock yelled "Khan!" I was already in face-palm mode at that point, but the yell just took me past the point of no return.
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2013
  20. Yorkshire Niner

    Yorkshire Niner Captain Captain

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    After all Jar Jar's efforts to build a new timeline so that he and his script-bots weren't beholding to any of that nasty continuity nonsense (that was sarcasm, by the way), lifting an entire scene from a 30 year old (superior) film smacked of nothing less than plagiarism.