Interracial couple denied marriage license in Louisiana

Discussion in 'Miscellaneous' started by Supreme Admiral, Oct 16, 2009.

  1. JuanBolio

    JuanBolio Admiral Admiral

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    I wish you'd stop implying that I don't understand these things. I do. Apparently better than you do.
     
  2. John Picard

    John Picard Vice Admiral Admiral

    Based on your argumentative responses, you don't.
     
  3. I think some people need to take their 'bullshit detectors' into the shop for some repairs and a service check.

    "No no, I'm only doing this for the kids" is a common cover excuse. Nobody wants to sound like a racist. There comes a point where you evaluate based on people's actions and not their excuses.
     
  4. thumbtack

    thumbtack Commodore Commodore

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    Just what I was thinking. It's also their current "cover" against gay marriage- "Oh well, we don't hate them all that much any more, but we don't want to send the wrong message to the children."
     
  5. JuanBolio

    JuanBolio Admiral Admiral

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    Just because it is a popular cover does not mean it cannot be an honest, if misguided motivation.
     
  6. Locutus of Bored

    Locutus of Bored Co-Founder of ISIS Moderator

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    You're a smart guy and I believe you completely understand these things, but that you continuously choose to defend the opposite of what everyone else is saying because that plays to your "internet rebel" shtick. There's nothing wrong with defending an unpopular opinion in and of itself, except when you toss out all logic and common sense in the process just for the sake of being contrary.
     
  7. JuanBolio

    JuanBolio Admiral Admiral

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    ...which I am not doing here. My logic tells me that according to this guy's stated beliefs, racism is not his motivation for doing as he did, and so it is unfair to brand him a racist when there are so many others out there who truly deserve it. Often people who've done less but said and believed more.

    I have repeatedly conceded that it is possible that he is in fact a racist and simply hiding his beliefs by lying about his motivations, but I see nothing to suggest that. Show me where common sense and logic dictate that this man must be a racist and I'll happily eat my words.
     
  8. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Riiiiiiiiiiiight.

    Because a racist would never lie, of course. Oh no, never. :rolleyes: :guffaw:

    The simple fact is this: What this guy says is irrelevant. It's his actions that brand him as a racist. You can't get around what you do, by saying something different.
     
  9. JuanBolio

    JuanBolio Admiral Admiral

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    Have you just flat-out ignored every instance in which I've conceded he may be lying about his motivations?

    Motivations are very relevant to me. Yes, on the surface his actions do appear to be those of a racist, but that doesn't necessarily mean he has racism in his heart. To me why someone does a thing has more bearing on what kind of person they are than what they do.
     
  10. Locutus of Bored

    Locutus of Bored Co-Founder of ISIS Moderator

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    Must be a racist? No (he'd have to be pretty deluded in his thinking to believe advocating segregation isn't directly related to racism though). Most likely a racist? Yes. Good enough for me as a poster on TrekBBS with no influence over this guy's life to make a judgment call on him being a racist? Absolutely.

    I already laid out the common sense and logical arguments in my previous post, but here they are again:

    1) If he is doing it to protect the couple's potential children from adversity, why does he not have other restrictions on marriage, such as criminal records, frequent unemployment, inheritable medical conditions, economic status, uncommon religious beliefs, alcoholism and drug use, domestic violence, or any number of other things kids could possibly be troubled by? Why is interracial marriage exclusively a dealbreaker?

    2) If he genuinely believes it represents an extremely difficult issue for children to overcome, why does he offer assistance to the couples in finding another Justice of the Peace who will perform the ceremony? That points to not actually being concerned about the kids, and instead having a personal aversion to interracial marriage and not wanting to perform the ceremony himself, much like a minister saying "I won't perform your gay marriage, but here are some directions to the Unitarian Church down the street." If you truly believe it's damaging, then shouldn't you be against it completely, and not just against performing it yourself? That just means you personally find it icky.

    3) Why does he assume that all marriages are going to result in children? Shouldn't a "Do you plan on / are you capable of having biological children or are you planning on adopting a child of a different race?" query be part of his opening questionnaire to the couple before deciding on performing the ceremony? Why does he still oppose interracial marriage when children aren't an issue?

    The Magic 8-Ball says "Signs point to yes" when you ask if he's a racist.
     
  11. JuanBolio

    JuanBolio Admiral Admiral

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    My magic 8-ball and my analysis say he might be, but based on what he says (since I can't read his mind) he is not. It isn't good enough for me as I am, whether I am sitting in a jury box (if simply being a racist was a crime) or posting my opinion on a BBS, to call him a racist. I try to hold myself to the same burden of proof all the time.
     
  12. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    We don't need to read his mind. His actions speak for themselves. He may have even convinced himself that he's not a racist, and I'm sure he'd say so if asked, but his actions have already proven that he is. The actions *themselves* are evidence.
     
  13. JuanBolio

    JuanBolio Admiral Admiral

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    Not for me. Actions like these are not enough in my mind to make someone a racist, especially in the face of his stated motivations, which are not. Things just aren't that simple to me. If they are for you, then fine. But I cannot agree.
     
  14. TorontoTrekker

    TorontoTrekker Vice Admiral Admiral

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    This thread reminds me of something I've mentioned to my boss about someone we both know, who reminds me of my former boss' business partner. He would often say hateful or hurtful things, then laugh and say, "I'm not a bigot - I hate everyone equally." I never had the nerve to say it to him, but I will say it to this other person if he ever says anything hateful in front of me: "That's just a crutch you're depending on to allow you to say hateful things."

    (I'm waiting to say it not because I don't believe the person who told me what he'd said - I believe that person implicitly - but because it would be out of the blue for me to say something like that without immediate cause.)
     
  15. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I think Gunnery Sgt. Hartmann from Full Metal Jacket also said that. :lol:
     
  16. RJDiogenes

    RJDiogenes Idealistic Cynic and Canon Champion Premium Member

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    A lot of people say that; the proper response is, "That makes you the worst possible kind of bigot."
     
  17. Bluesteel

    Bluesteel Commander Red Shirt

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    You know the easy way to solve this thing? Go to an another judge. Why cause all of this fuss just to get married. If he does get fired your losing an experienced judge who could be useful in cases that doesn't involve race.
     
  18. RJDiogenes

    RJDiogenes Idealistic Cynic and Canon Champion Premium Member

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    If he can't do his job and can't obey the law, he needs to be fired.
     
  19. JuanBolio

    JuanBolio Admiral Admiral

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    True, no argument here. It is also true, however, that this guy was hardly being an insurmountable obstacle to interracial marriage.
     
  20. paudemge

    paudemge Captain Captain

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    Yea, it is easy to solve, fire him.
    If his judgment is so flawed in this area, then I don't want his kind of experience. He has no business in any government position of authority.