Interracial couple denied marriage license in Louisiana

Discussion in 'Miscellaneous' started by Supreme Admiral, Oct 16, 2009.

  1. JuanBolio

    JuanBolio Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2003
    Location:
    Florida Keys, USA
    I agree, but I don't think that makes his actions and beliefs in themselves racist.

    I disagree. I believe motive defines a person's actions, not their unintended effects. In my book this man, based on what he's said alone (I know nothing of his inner motivations, if he has any), is not racist, and therefore neither were his actions. Overstepping his authority and worthy of termination, definitely. Racist - no.
     
  2. thestrangequark

    thestrangequark Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2006
    Location:
    Brooklyn
    And I have to disagree with that. In cases like this, motives are meaningless, actions are everything. The behavior is racist, no matter the logic or intentions behind it.
     
  3. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    May 10, 2005
    Location:
    The visitor's bullpen
    Whoever, and whatever, perpetuates racism - or allows it to be perpetuated - is in itself racist.
     
  4. Nerys Ghemor

    Nerys Ghemor Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2008
    Location:
    Cardăsa Terăm--Nerys Ghemor
    I agree with those who find this disturbing: to deem being interracial such an adversity that it is better that such children not live--NOT a good attitude at all. What about other adversities? Disabilities? Being too smart? Being adopted by a single parent? Eeeek. I don't see how this is NOT racist.

    And if there IS adversity, it is the responsibility of the parents to equip their children to handle it and to be there to support them. It is NOT the government's place, unless there is PROVEN, criminal abuse, to interfere with the right of people to succeed or fail as they will.
     
  5. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    May 10, 2005
    Location:
    The visitor's bullpen
    Well said, Nerys and tsq. :techman:

    And at the risk of trivializing the situation by interjecting a fictional example: This is exactly the kind of thing Spock had to deal with in ST XI. The Vulcan Science Minister was exhibiting obviously racist behavior when he referred to Spock's human ancestry (his mother's side) as a disadvantage, since Vulcan - being a society which values logic above all else - must NEVER exhibit this kind of thing, since racism is inherently illogical.
     
  6. John Picard

    John Picard Vice Admiral Admiral

    His actions scream racial intolerance. It is HIS opinion that mixed races marriages don't work out (bullshit) and that the children suffer (more bullshit); therefore, in HIS OPINION, they shouldn't be allowed to marry.

    RACISM. End. Of. Story.
     
  7. JuanBolio

    JuanBolio Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2003
    Location:
    Florida Keys, USA
    Then we must agree to disagree.

    That's like saying a doctor who has given up on treating cancer is, himself, cancer.

    Maybe, but his stated motivations say otherwise.

    I don't remember reading about him saying they shouldn't be allowed to. He just said he wouldn't do it or contribute to it himself. He didn't try to prevent it from happening.


    No, I think that's a little too simplistic for me.
     
  8. sidious618

    sidious618 Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2005
    Location:
    sidious618
    Either this guy is a racist and trying to hide it behind excuses or he's a moron. Either way, he's not looking good.
     
  9. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    May 10, 2005
    Location:
    The visitor's bullpen
    Not at all. Doctors are continually striving to cure cancer. They have not given up on it. They can't cure cancer now, because that is not yet medically possible. But they are still trying to cure it.

    This justice, OTOH, has the power to *eliminate* the racism that is occurring right under his watch - by simply performing the marriage. Once he's done that, everything would have been fine. But by refusing to do the ceremony, he is creating more racism. The vicious circle continues.
     
  10. JuanBolio

    JuanBolio Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2003
    Location:
    Florida Keys, USA
    You misunderstand. I'm talking about if a SINGLE doctor refused to treat cancer because he thought it was hopeless. Far fetched, I know, but bear with me - its a metaphor. Would that doctor, himself, become cancerous for not acting to cure it?
     
  11. thestrangequark

    thestrangequark Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2006
    Location:
    Brooklyn
    So engaging in racist behavior and promoting racist behavior isn't so bad so long as his motives (he thinks) are pure? That's ridiculous.

    Besides, even when we do take into account his motives we cannot deny that his logic is faulty.
     
  12. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    May 10, 2005
    Location:
    The visitor's bullpen
    No, because a physical ailment can only be caused by biology. Racial prejudice and intolerance can be caused, and allowed to continue, by attitudes alone.
     
  13. thestrangequark

    thestrangequark Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2006
    Location:
    Brooklyn
    The analogy is flawed because cancer is not a human behavior. The metaphorical aside, one cannot behave as a cancer. One can behave as a racist. We can separate the behavior from the intentions for sure. But the behavior is racist, and because it is the behavior that affects the world, it is the behavior, and only the behavior, that matters. His motives may serve to appease his own mind, and you and I could debate whether his attitude itself is racist (I believe it is), but all that doesn't matter when the action is considered.
     
  14. John Picard

    John Picard Vice Admiral Admiral

    Here you go, sport.

    http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2009-10-15-interracial-couple_N.htm

    He doesn't believe in mixing the races. How much more proof would you like?

    And some follow-up.
    http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2009-10-16-interracial-marriage_N.htm
     
  15. JuanBolio

    JuanBolio Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2003
    Location:
    Florida Keys, USA
    I don't think his actions were racist, exactly, as they had nothing to do with one race being less than another. Segregationist, maybe, but that's not the same thing.

    Perhaps. I think he's correct in stating that black and mixed kids will likely face difficulties in their lives that white kids would not. I don't agree with his actions (or rather inactions), but I simply can't agree that all this makes him a racist.

    Tools are irrelevant. The doctor has the power to fight cancer, the JoP has the power to bring races together, one marriage at a time. Is the doctor cancerous for not treating cancer as the JoP is racist for choosing not to wed mixed couples?

    Don't call me "sport", and yes, I've read all of that. My opinion remains unchanged. Based on his stated motivations, he is not, in my opinion, a racist.

    End of story. :p
     
  16. Nerys Ghemor

    Nerys Ghemor Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2008
    Location:
    Cardăsa Terăm--Nerys Ghemor
    How else could a person morally justify segregationism other than racism??? Seriously, I cannot see that.
     
  17. thestrangequark

    thestrangequark Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2006
    Location:
    Brooklyn
    :lol: He's definitely not racist, he has "black friends!" "Piles and piles of them!" He even let's them use his bathroom!
     
  18. thestrangequark

    thestrangequark Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2006
    Location:
    Brooklyn
    He is treating people differently based solely on their race. That is the very definition of racism!
     
  19. JuanBolio

    JuanBolio Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2003
    Location:
    Florida Keys, USA
    He feels that mixed couples will have children that will face adversity in their life that they otherwise wouldn't. He steps way over the bounds (and bonds) of his authority in refusing to take part in bringing the parents together in legal union (especially since people don't need to be married to have kids), but I don't think that attitude in itself is racist. Racism stems from feelings of racial superiority/inferiority. I see none of that here.

    No, as far as I know he treats black people no different from white people. He is simply refusing to participate in marrying them together. It would be racist if, say, he refused to wed any two black people in hopes that the race would stop breeding and die out, or if he refused to marry white and black people together because he felt a black person was unworthy of marrying a white person.
     
  20. thestrangequark

    thestrangequark Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2006
    Location:
    Brooklyn
    No, that's completely wrong. He is treating interracial couples differently from other couples. He is altering his behavior because of their races. That is racism.