internet campaign to restore star trek final frontier starts

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies I-X' started by tmosler, Jan 10, 2013.

  1. Jeyl

    Jeyl Commodore Commodore

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    SFDebris agrees.

    SFDebris: Shatner was denied a Director's Cut with money for new effects and all that. But even if they had been eye-boggingly awesome, it'd at best would have bumped this up to a 2 (score was 1 out of 10), because the primary flaws were flaws from day one. When the novelization is more beloved because it at least tries to make sense, you know you failed.
     
  2. jayrath

    jayrath Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    To the naysayers: there is a very easy way to improve TFF.

    Slingshot around the sun, go back in time, and settle the writer's strike that prevented the script from going through several more drafts.
     
  3. Greg Cox

    Greg Cox Admiral Premium Member

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    Okay, that I could get behind . . . :)

    Honestly, it's not just about the SFX. I don't even remember the SFX being particularly bad. That was never the issue, at least as far as I was concerned. The script was the problem.
     
  4. Sindatur

    Sindatur The Grey Owl Wizard Premium Member

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    But Trek Time Travel doesn't work like that anymore. If you went back in time, and had the script fixed, it would be another Universe's TFF that you would be improving, not ours :klingon:

    ;)
     
  5. Greg Cox

    Greg Cox Admiral Premium Member

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    So it would be NuTFF?
     
  6. Dream

    Dream Admiral Admiral

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    Too bad Paramount didn't remember how much the stupid humor harmed TFF when they made Insurrection! :sigh:
     
  7. Sindatur

    Sindatur The Grey Owl Wizard Premium Member

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    Yessirree Bob
     
  8. Lance

    Lance Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    On the other hand, it could be argued that the movie's (frankly) less than stellar special effects are one contributing factor to it feeling so much like an episode of TOS. Wouldn't taking away the bad effects defeat the purpose? Some movies are just fated to be bad from the outset. TFF is one of them. ;)
     
  9. trevanian

    trevanian Rear Admiral

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    Reading that made me imagine Spock asking McCoy about how he feels about his boobs firming up.

    Don't think anybody would be snuggling round the fire after that.
     
  10. BriGuy

    BriGuy Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    All I think of when it comes to TFF is it was hard to believe after the huge success that was TVH - broad based success at that - that the franchise fell so hard flat on its face and probably set it back with a good bit of fans and more of the general public.

    TUC went a long way to redeeming TOS crew, but I don't think Trek rebounded as well with the masses until ST09.
     
  11. Trek Survivor

    Trek Survivor Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I like TFF just the way it is - and yes, I'm serious and yes, I realise I'm probably the only one!

    The effects were fairly poor quality, but the story was interesting and the Kirk-Spock-McCoy friendship has never been portrayed better.
     
  12. Dukhat

    Dukhat Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Well, I don't know how much more "constructive" I could have been. Trimming scenes from a completely flawed film isn't going to make the film better, it's just going to make the film's running time shorter.

    And BTW, some director's cuts actually add scenes that weren't in the theatrical release.
     
  13. jeddah

    jeddah Ensign Newbie

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    There is a growing movement for a STV DE and for the ST TMP DE to be brought to HD, surely Paramount will one day give this the green light, didn't the TMP DE make more money than expected on DVD in 2001
     
  14. YARN

    YARN Fleet Captain

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    Let me know when they circulate the petition to burn the remaining prints of this film. :lol:
     
  15. LOKAI of CHERON

    LOKAI of CHERON Commodore Commodore

    I'd say TMP DE on Blu-ray is a certainty, not so optimistic for TFF unfortunately.
     
  16. CoveTom

    CoveTom Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I guess what it all comes down to -- and this is solely personal opinion -- is whether you think TFF began with a good story that then got lost through bad filmmaking, or whether it was a bad story to begin with that was just made worse by the bad filmmaking.

    I personally think the former. I think the story, as constructed, is solid. I think there is a lot of good stuff there. I think it was brought down by three things: the insistence by the studio on including lots of humor in what was supposed to be a serious story; the choice of a visual effects company unqualified for a project of this scale; and the refusal by Paramount to adjust the budget to allow for rewriting and reshoots when the problems were discovered.

    Most people focus on re-doing the visual effects. That's certainly possible, and even perhaps not terribly complicated, with today's technology. And I think it would help. But that's not the biggest thing that could be done. The biggest thing would be to re-cut the movie. You could remove a lot of the ridiculous humor moments without removing any key information from the story. Okay, the fall of the mountain and Spock's Superman rescue are pretty tightly tied into the more touching moments of Kirk discussing the fact that he knows he'll die alone. But other elements, such as the oft-cited Scotty banging his head on a bulkhead for example, are not and could be trimmed with ease.

    A good, thorough re-cutting of the film could work wonders, IMHO. But that's because I think it's got a good story that it starts with. Your mileage may vary.
     
  17. Grant

    Grant Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I totally agree.

    If you think the movie is 1 of 5 stars--then re-cut and new Fx wouldn't be making much of a dent in your opinion, but if you think it's 2 to 3 stars then a judicious re-cut and new effects may push it over the top as being 'good'

    The flaws:

    1. FX
    2. Too much silliness
    3. Not enough good action
    4. Besides Sybok-- weak guest cast
    5. Poorly realized climax

    1, 2, 4, and 5 can be somewhat adressed with new FX and a re-cut. Obvioulsy 4 cannot.

    But if you think a quest to find god who turns out not to be--is a horrible premise--nothing will change your mind.

    I give the movie a current 2.5 stars and think a good re-cut and new FX could bring it up to 3.5.

    I'd buy it.
     
  18. Dukhat

    Dukhat Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I personally think TFF was flawed right from its inception.

    Really, there wasn't even a need for this movie in the first place. TVH was a fantastic place for the TOS films to end, and TNG was at the height of its popularity. But instead Shatner decided he wanted to make a Trek movie, and Paramount decided to let him do it. And that's where the problem started.

    1. Nimbus III - Why oh why on Earth was this shithole of a planet chosen for such an important meeting place for galactic dignitaries? You mean to tell me there was no other planet in the Neutral Zone better than this place?

    2. The ENTIRE camping scene made me painfully aware of how old these people are and that they really shouldn't be making movies anymore.

    3. Spock's half-brother, and Kirk, McCoy, et. al not knowing about his existence - this has been commented on ad infinitum, so there's really nothing new I can say about it, other than, "who the hell is Lawrence Luckinbill, and how did he get this role?":confused:

    4. The only concept that I found intriguing was the "I can heal your pain" thing Sybok was doing. But the fact that a) Sybok was the one doing it, and b) that it made completely loyal friends and officers turn against Kirk without any real forcible influence just smacked of ridiculousness.

    5. The Enterprise "being the only ship in the quadrant" thing has been done in other movies and shows before, but here it's just nonsensical. Really, a malfunctioning ship that seems to be the result of a severe design flaw is the only vessel Starfleet can send? What the hell was the Excelsior doing that they couldn't send it? And what about all those ships Starfleet has on Neutral Zone border patrol all the fucking time? Wouldn't they be, like, closer to Nimbus III than the Enterprise, which was in orbit around Earth?

    6. A planet at the center of the galaxy, and the Enterprise can reach said center in less than an hour? Need I say more?

    7. The Klingons were incredibly boring and dull, even more boring and dull than usual. Why were they even in the movie again? Oh yeah, so that Spock could use their ship's gun to kill God.

    8. And finally, God, and why he needed a starship. And why Sybok was so incredibly stupid as to believe in this nuttiness. I suppose what Grant said, (i.e. the quest to find God who turns out not to be who you thought) could be an intriguing concept if it was done correctly. But that would work in more of an abstract way...not a literal way as presented here.


    None of these points have anything to do with the movie's sub-par VFX, or the silly dialog, or the lack of action. These fundamental flaws simply cannot be fixed by editing.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2013
  19. MikeS

    MikeS Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Not to sound like I'm "flaming" but, for a movie that you so obviously hate you have an awful lot to say about it. This is a thread about possibly making it better for those of us that think it's "ok" as is, and how that can be achieved. We are all aware of the flaws. If I hated something so much I'd just ignore it. It is only a movie afterall. Probably best to look at your own signature and think about exactly what that means. :)
     
  20. Dukhat

    Dukhat Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    My post was a response to CoveTom's comment, which I clearly quoted for all to see.

    Obviously you've never been on a Star Trek internet bulletin board before. This is what people do. If you don't like it when people express opinions that are counter to your own, then perhaps you should be the one to ignore them.

    And BTW, my signature was in response to something that occurred here years ago, and was an in-joke, and I haven't gotten around to changing it. And I don't see how my signature has anything to do with what I wrote.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2013