Insurrection as an episode...

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies I-X' started by lewisniven, Sep 27, 2012.

  1. lewisniven

    lewisniven Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    One of the criticisms levelled at Insurrection most often is that it felt too much like a feature length episode, which in honesty I agree with, the general premise had been done a few times on the show in one guise or another.

    SO lets look at it this way, imagine it was a season 6 two-parter or something. How do you think people would look back on it as an episode?

    I honestly don't think the film is quite as horrendous as some people make out (small cartoon walrus/squirell thing aside), and had it been an episode I think it would of stood up well, thoughts...?
     
  2. Stephen!

    Stephen! Captain Captain

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    I suppose it depends how much stuff would have to be cut from the script to make it fit into two episodes.
     
  3. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Not much really given the movie was only 103 minutes or barely over an hour and a half. So they could fit that into a two part episode pretty easy. The average TNG episode is about 45 minutes minus commercials so, they'd only have to cut 10 minutes. Cutting Data out at the beginning and the alien reception would pretty much do the trick.

    It probably would have stood up better as an episode. The Baku still hard to be sympathetic with, but a below par two parter wouldn't be as disappointing as a below par movie. I still look on a two parter like Birthright with a small amount of fondness afterall.
     
  4. SchwEnt

    SchwEnt Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Still sucks.
     
  5. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Got any more pearls of wisdom you'd like to share with us?
     
  6. Delsaber

    Delsaber Commodore Commodore

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    I think it would've fared better as a two-hour "event" episode along the lines of Voyager's "Dark Frontier", or something closer to one of Babylon 5's TV movies. It didn't work terribly well as a feature, yet I'm not sure where it would fit as a traditional two-parter.

    Then again, most of the two-parters that TNG did in its last two or three seasons weren't that great, so maybe it would fit in just fine. All of them after Redemption started to feel less and less interesting, like the extended format was more of a hindrance than a help.
     
  7. SchwEnt

    SchwEnt Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I agree it IS very much like a two-parter (more than any other TNG movie), akin to "Gambit" or "Time's Arrow" or "Descent". It wouldn't seem out of place if INS had aired as a two-parter during the 6th or 7th season.

    And yet, I'd still feel very "eh" about it. It's a step down from "Time's Arrow", for example, and even that one isn't too hot.

    INS would be routine if lackluster as a two-parter, with some significant problems. As a movie, INS sucks.
     
  8. doubleohfive

    doubleohfive Fleet Admiral

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    The question then becomes, what's the mid-way cliffhanger?

    Too, and equally important to consider -- given the stricture of the series at the time, is it at all possible the writers would have gone with Piller's original idea to do "Heart of Darkness" and feature Picard's friend Duffy instead of Data?
     
  9. Dream

    Dream Admiral Admiral

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    The only things I like about the movie are Riker and Troi rekindling their romance, and the scene with the healed Gerodi watching the sunset. The rest is very forgettable.

    I can't stand the Baku. Bunch of entitled hippies that want to live forever while billions are suffering and getting killed because of the Dominon War, the same people that could've been saved through researching the planet.
     
  10. doubleohfive

    doubleohfive Fleet Admiral

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    Meh. Juvenile and shoehorned romance subplot, even by Trek standards. It'd probably be considered the worst part of the film if they'd had someone smart enough to omit Data's line about boobs perking up...

    That scene was lovely, yes. Had they not done the same basic 'bit' eleven years earlier in "Hide and Q" it would have been all the more memorable.

    Not that I'm surprised to read these words from a post by you, I do find myself asking the question... how exactly would all the people being killed in the Dominion War have been helped by the Federation forcibly taking and researching the Ba'ku planet?
     
  11. Delsaber

    Delsaber Commodore Commodore

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    I don't think that the Baku's form of immortality would've helped at all. Simply being ageless doesn't mean that you can't still die from violence, and Picard's squeeze did almost die in that cave-in.
     
  12. Dream

    Dream Admiral Admiral

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    I really hated the Worf/Troi romance that appeared during the last season of TNG. Most forced romance ever. For all the faults of the movies, at least they ended that.

    The scene was better done in the movie. Better filmed and acted.

    They might have been saved before they died? The Federation was planning to research the planet's healing propeties to improve their current medicines.

    Insurrection took place during or shortly after the Dominon War. The Federation was in bad shape.
     
  13. Dream

    Dream Admiral Admiral

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    The Baku's form of immorality really sucked. It only worked while a person was on the planet.
     
  14. Tosk

    Tosk Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Out of curiosity, how would you react if a hostile group tried to trick you out of your home and when you found out they still tried to do it, but with violent force?
     
  15. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    ^

    Exile them all which is pretty much a death sentence for them?
     
  16. Ghel

    Ghel Commander Red Shirt

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    Personally, I was disappointed walking out of the theater after watching this film, but it is one of the Trek films that I watch most frequently--alongside The Voyage Home. It's scale seems limited and honestly, some of the sfx are groan-worthy (such as the scale of Data's shuttlecraft against the planet) but the overall movie makes for a very enjoyable Trek "episode."
     
  17. Dream

    Dream Admiral Admiral

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    Yes, Ru'afo was a thug, but I understand why the Federation did what it did. The only thing the Federation did wrong was not reveal who they were to the Baku and attempt to work out some kind of deal with the Baku for the planet. The movie never attempted to address like this, which really weakened it IMO.

    I wouldn't call them living out their rest of their normal lifespans a death sentence. Anij was already over 300 years old herself. Many people in the galaxy were never as lucky as the Baku were to discover the planet.

    People forget that the planet was in Federation space. Also the original Baku had arrived there from another planet.

    A big problem with the Baku was that they simply weren't likeable.
     
  18. horatio83

    horatio83 Commodore Commodore

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    They might very well have shared their resources after the events of INS but nobody bothered to ask them, the Feds just rushed in and tried to rob them. Some fans seem to confuse the Klingon Empire and the United Federation of Planets.


    First time I heard that justice should be based upon how likable somebody is.
     
  19. Trek Survivor

    Trek Survivor Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I think the limitations of budget would've made the episode(s) look a lot more hokey. One of the main draws of "Insurrection", the movie, for me is that it is very beautifully shot. Lovely location work etc. That would likely not be the same on a TV budget.

    Story-wise, I suppose it would be a little more fondly remembered if it had been a 2-parter rather than a movie. But I started a thread a while back ("Learning to Love Insurrection") in which I started to actually accept the movie more after years of being disappointed in it.
     
  20. EyalM

    EyalM Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Insurrection is just an alien of the week story, it's not even 2-parter worthy. TNG already did a forced relocation plot (more then once, actually) and needed only 45 minutes to do it.
    A two parter needs to be an "event" (like mentioned up tread), a story that needs the extended run time to unfold. If we take out most of the action scenes (which they couldn't afford on a TV budget), how much running time would we actually be left with?