Inception (Christopher Nolan, Leonardo DiCaprio) Grading & Discussion

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by Aragorn, Jul 15, 2010.

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Grading

  1. Excellent

    71.0%
  2. Above average

    23.7%
  3. Average

    3.6%
  4. Below average

    1.8%
  5. Poor

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. Ryan

    Ryan Commodore Commodore

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    Re: Inception (Christopher Nolan, Leonardo DiCaprio) Grading & Discuss

    The only way I can see that working is if Arthur's entire sequence fighting Fischer's defenses and blowing the elevator completed just as the team was beginning their work on level 3. The editing seems to indicate the music cue happened across all the levels at the same time though. We even hear it radically slowed down in level 3 versus level 2.
     
  2. Deckerd

    Deckerd Fleet Arse Premium Member

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    Re: Inception (Christopher Nolan, Leonardo DiCaprio) Grading & Discuss

    I do like the way you have brought this up in a matter-of-fact manner rather than the OMG! link someone posted earlier. It's a completely logical thing to do, to slow the music down, since time is dilated.
     
  3. Myasishchev

    Myasishchev Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: Inception (Christopher Nolan, Leonardo DiCaprio) Grading & Discuss

    Well, this is absolutely true. I mean, I like it, but having seen most of Nolan's work, he takes a deadly serious approach to somewhat goofy ideas (Memento, Batman, Prestige, and Inception all have questionable underpinnings), and the aesthetic is, indeed, doom and gloom pretty much all the way through. I guess it's not for everyone, but except for the crumminess of Begins, and to a certain extent TDK, he hasn't actually disappointed me. The Prestige is pretty awesome because of its overserious approach--which is maybe even necessary given its central implausibility based on a Flash Gordon level of fealty to science.

    (Now, I've never seen Insomnia or Following, but I don't suppose they're slapstick comedies either.)
     
  4. Deckerd

    Deckerd Fleet Arse Premium Member

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    Re: Inception (Christopher Nolan, Leonardo DiCaprio) Grading & Discuss

    Batman has questionable underpinnings? How dare you!
     
  5. Ryan

    Ryan Commodore Commodore

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    Re: Inception (Christopher Nolan, Leonardo DiCaprio) Grading & Discuss

    They're on the right track but picked the most superficial explanation. Those scenes don't exist to definitively prove reality is another level of dreaming but to get us questioning what is and isn't real the same way Cobb does. Remember his opening speech: an idea is like a virus. The idea Cobb planted in Mal's mind has now come back to infect his own subconscious.

    One of the criticisms I've seen leveled at Inception is the dreams aren't dream-like enough. But that's surely done on purpose. A dreamer might not notice the reality-bending non sequitur landscape of their dreams but the audience surely would. Instead of thinking Cobb is dumb for always spinning the top we're in the same boat. Is it going to keep going this time or topple?
     
  6. Trekker4747

    Trekker4747 Boldly going... Premium Member

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    Re: Inception (Christopher Nolan, Leonardo DiCaprio) Grading & Discuss

    I think the whole "dreams weren't dream like enough" argument is silly. First of all the "architect" and Cobb were both populating and creating the environment of the dream to make as realistic as possible so the subject would think it was real life.

    Secondly, I think too many people get their idea of how dreams "are" not from their own experiences but from how dreams are represented in other media. Dreams in most TV shows, movies, etc. are very surreal and wacky. And while from an awake, contemplative, mind that dream may have seemed very WTF while you're in it it strikes you as very real and if you really reflect on it the dream was mundane. You didn't have melting clocks, or characters in it looking like they're from a French expressionist painting it looked like, well, the real world.

    So I'm not sure how the "dreams not being dream-like" enough argument works when in the movie the dreams were being controlled by characters who were making sure the dream seemed like reality and that dreams themselves aren't (and if they are they're usally -for me anyway- the exception rather than the norm) very dream-like themselves.

    Oh, one more thing I picked up on.

    In the city/GTA dream level it is pouring rain, it seemed this was the case because their Chemist had to pee and he forgot to go before being put under on the plane. :lol:
     
  7. Myasishchev

    Myasishchev Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: Inception (Christopher Nolan, Leonardo DiCaprio) Grading & Discuss

    OH. Man, I heard the line the first time, but it never made sense till now. Okay, that's pretty good.
     
  8. JacksonArcher

    JacksonArcher Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Inception (Christopher Nolan, Leonardo DiCaprio) Grading & Discuss

    I think it depends on your definition of "fun". To me, Nolan's films are very fun. I love dissecting the almost analytical nature that Nolan brings to his films in terms of how he structures them narratively and thematically. They're always interesting and incredibly visually striking. I mean, it's not like Nolan's movies are completely humorless, either. Most of his films -- especially his later films -- have a good deal of occasional jokey humor sprinkled throughout. The difference being that he doesn't let the humor dominate the proceedings. It's sparse, but enjoyable.

    I don't see how this is any different from filmmakers like Alfred Hitchcock or David Fincher or Paul Greengrass or Bryan Singer who are very prolific filmmakers and make very serious films. What these filmmakers have in common is that their films happen to be very entertaining in the sense that they're very well made. Yet they usually take their subject matter very seriously.

    I think you can either enjoy Nolan's films or simply don't bother. I say this because as a prolific filmmaker I think you know what to expect from watching a Christopher Nolan movie. He's established a firm reputation for making psychological suspense thrillers. Yes, they're very serious-minded. Nolan takes a very analytical and deliberate approach to his movies. However, if you would not prefer the type of storytelling, then don't bother.

    Nolan makes the movies he wants to make, like any good filmmaker, and he only hopes that the films that he enjoys making are movies an audience would enjoy watching. That's the only thing you can do as a filmmaker. When you compromise your artistic integrity, that's when things have a tendency to roll downhill. Nolan is very passionate over the stories he wishes to tell and he's very good at them. They might not be to your liking, but you don't have to watch. You can always watch a movie from some other filmmaker who enjoys telling the type of stories you enjoy watching.
     
  9. Myasishchev

    Myasishchev Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: Inception (Christopher Nolan, Leonardo DiCaprio) Grading & Discuss

    ^Of course you can, but I still think it's a legitimate criticism, even if I have no problem myself with the aesthetic. I personally feel Nolan's films would be worse off if they were "more fun" in the vein I believe Level 2 Diagnostic means, and yet I can see how it might turn some off.
     
  10. JacksonArcher

    JacksonArcher Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Inception (Christopher Nolan, Leonardo DiCaprio) Grading & Discuss

    I wouldn't call it criticism. Merely difference of taste.
     
  11. T'Baio

    T'Baio Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Inception (Christopher Nolan, Leonardo DiCaprio) Grading & Discuss

    No one's getting the pee thing? Seriously, do people pay attention at all?
     
  12. RoJoHen

    RoJoHen Awesome Premium Member

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    Re: Inception (Christopher Nolan, Leonardo DiCaprio) Grading & Discuss

    I got it right away. :shrug:

    The more I read reviews online, the more I realize that people just don't pay attention to what they're watching. Like how so many people got confused by the LOST finale, even though Christian laid it right out there what had been going on.
     
  13. bigdaddy

    bigdaddy Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Inception (Christopher Nolan, Leonardo DiCaprio) Grading & Discuss

    God don't get me started on the LOST finale. There were online polls and 40%-48% of the people were confused and thought...
    they all died in the plane crash even through it was said that everything that happened on the island was real, it happened!
     
  14. Level 2 Diagnostic

    Level 2 Diagnostic Captain Captain

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    Re: Inception (Christopher Nolan, Leonardo DiCaprio) Grading & Discuss

    To me, that's kind of like saying no one has the right to complain about Transformers 2 being big, dumb, and loud, because Michael Bay's movies have always been big, dumb, and loud. And yet the Transformers 2 thread on this very board was nothing but people complaining about how Michael Bay indulged in typical Michael Bay excess.

    Setting aside the general weakness of the "if you don't like it don't watch it" defense, all the people gushing about this movie has sort of made it impossible to not go see it. Going by the comments in this thread, you'd think Nolan had invented a completely new system of filmmaking that will transform the fundamental experience of cinema and eventually lead to the second coming of Jesus. If you're a lover of film, all the gushing has sort of forced you see it, just to find out what all the fuss is about.
     
  15. RoJoHen

    RoJoHen Awesome Premium Member

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    Re: Inception (Christopher Nolan, Leonardo DiCaprio) Grading & Discuss

    That's one of the reasons I saw it. That, and the fact that the previews were intriguing without telling me a god damn thing about the movie. So many previews these days give away way too much information. I had seen several previews for Inception, but I honestly had no idea what it was about until I got into the theater.
     
  16. Flying Spaghetti Monster

    Flying Spaghetti Monster Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Inception (Christopher Nolan, Leonardo DiCaprio) Grading & Discuss

    I really respect you as a poster, and I also love what I have seen by Nolan. However, one could think, by reading your posts, that you give every Nolan film a pass ebcause it's a Nolan film. I hope that's now what you are saying. How do you respond to some of the specific criticisms expressed in this thread?

    What we are asking for is honesty, not gushing. I'm not making any accusations that you simply gushing, but I just want to express something difficult without pointing fingers or naming names. You said upthread that, in response to the idea that you wanted to find out that a specif dream really wasn't Fisher's but it was someone else's and it was filled with filled with Fisher's subconscious, you mentioned your desire to see the film again. Be honest here: if one goes to see the film again to understand a film's structure, can one not help but only see the structure, the machinations of the plot.

    Honestly, I felt surprising detached from the events of the film the second time I saw it. I was knew too much, I was paying more attention to how Nolan structured and foreshadowed things than I was to the actual story, philosophy, or characters. Whatever it was was that elevated the film to greatness, that made it more than the sum of its parts, was lost by the second viewing.

    When you do go see it again, and you come back here to comment on it, tell us if you felt this at all, and don't simply praise it because it's a Nolan film.
    You rock, man, just like your avatar!
     
  17. Trekker4747

    Trekker4747 Boldly going... Premium Member

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    Re: Inception (Christopher Nolan, Leonardo DiCaprio) Grading & Discuss

    I missed it completely the first time I watched the movie, didn't hear the conversation at all my hearing must have tuned out or something. But I got it right away during this second viewing.

    I got to say again that I loved, loved, loved this movie. It's just a mind fuck and Leo didn't annoy me at all in it and, well, I've got a thing for young, cute, brown-haired girls so I thought Kitty Pryde did a good job.
     
  18. Flying Spaghetti Monster

    Flying Spaghetti Monster Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Inception (Christopher Nolan, Leonardo DiCaprio) Grading & Discuss

    There was still gravity on GoldenEye level because of the time dilation
     
  19. Myasishchev

    Myasishchev Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: Inception (Christopher Nolan, Leonardo DiCaprio) Grading & Discuss

    Yes, I was paying attention, I just didn't waste a lot of flops on a mumbled one-liner equating piss and rain. I heard the joke, and the editing immediately suggested to me that he had to take a (dream-literal) piss somewhere, and then actual important stuff happened and I forgot about it because it was chaff.

    I'm pretty sure I didn't pay ten dollars to sit there and pick my nose, but maybe I need to go see it again so the crucial nature of the tiny scene obliquely explaining Dileep Rao's metaphorical urine does not pass me by. :shifty:

    Then shouldn't it have just been in freefall for longer?

    I mean, the van fell for a few seconds, hence the hotel at level 2 was in freefall for a few minutes, thus the Arctic Fortress Playset at level 3 should lose gravity for ______ .

    I guess it was simply shielded from the effects, why not.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2010
  20. bigdaddy

    bigdaddy Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Inception (Christopher Nolan, Leonardo DiCaprio) Grading & Discuss

    :guffaw:


    I completely forgot about the line until you said that. :lol: