Inception (Christopher Nolan, Leonardo DiCaprio) Grading & Discussion

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by Aragorn, Jul 15, 2010.

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Grading

  1. Excellent

    71.0%
  2. Above average

    23.7%
  3. Average

    3.6%
  4. Below average

    1.8%
  5. Poor

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. T'Baio

    T'Baio Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Inception (Christopher Nolan, Leonardo DiCaprio) Grading & Discuss

    JA, while I'll try not to be disappointed in you using, basically, a "some people like to be force fed and some people don't" argument against me, I'll ask you to read all my comments again. You should know that I'm not a "force fed" film viewer. But all my comments have been about what kind of ending a film sets itself up for. Sometimes a film sets itself up for an ambiguous ending, and if I feel the film deserves it by going for that kind of flavour the whole time, I love it. But in my comments above, I've discussed why I don't think Inception merits that kind of ending.
     
  2. Chris_Johnston

    Chris_Johnston Captain Captain

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  3. JacksonArcher

    JacksonArcher Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Inception (Christopher Nolan, Leonardo DiCaprio) Grading & Discuss

    I didn't mean to imply that. I'm just saying that with most people, they don't like ambiguous endings. I wasn't signaling out you in particular, just saying based on your comments it reminded me of my discussion with my friend. I apologize if I implied anything otherwise.

    I agree that the film was leading toward a cathartic resolution for Cobb's character, but since the film bled the lines between dream and reality, I don't think it really mattered how Cobb found that catharsis. With so many layers of the dream state, how are we to know when is someone dreaming and when someone isn't? The film could have been intentionally very misleading. There are even some that say the entire film is a dream, and that Ariadne was a projection that was meant to therapeutically help Cobb overcome his grief. While I don't think that theory has a lot of merit, the fact that people are suggesting it would imply that others have doubted the reliability of the film in terms of revealing what is real and what isn't. Mal committed suicide because she thought the "real world" wasn't enough. To her, it was almost like the dream world bled into her reality. It's possible the same happened for Cobb as well.

    It's also possible that Cobb had no choice, and even though he thought he was able to wake up himself and Saito, they were either individually or both in limbo for so long that it simply put didn't work. That are a lot of lingering questions that are left unanswered, especially since the ending went by so briskly. You could say it was leading to something ambiguous. Cobb found his emotional catharsis in the dream state, so perhaps it was fitting that he found closure in there as well. Who's to say?
     
  4. sidious618

    sidious618 Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Inception (Christopher Nolan, Leonardo DiCaprio) Grading & Discuss

    All we can say for certain is that anyone who says for sure it's still a dream or for sure it's not is full of it. It's the very definition of "open for interpretation."
     
  5. JacksonArcher

    JacksonArcher Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Inception (Christopher Nolan, Leonardo DiCaprio) Grading & Discuss

    Well, I definitely think there's a lot of discussion and points that lead in either direction. I'm not entirely convinced either way, and I kinda like that.
     
  6. Peter the Younger

    Peter the Younger Commodore Commodore

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    Re: Inception (Christopher Nolan, Leonardo DiCaprio) Grading & Discuss

    Count me as another fan of ambiguous endings. In fact, it would have felt cheap and too pat, after all that, to have the movie firmly declare "And Cobb lived happily ever after" in the last scene.
     
  7. T'Baio

    T'Baio Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Inception (Christopher Nolan, Leonardo DiCaprio) Grading & Discuss

    Cool. I apologize for my misunderstanding. :techman:

    I would like to say, the thing that bugs me about movies like this sometimes, is that people (myself included) end up arguing the last 5 seconds of a movie and not the piece on a whole.

    The cut to black before the (possible) topple, for me, kind of robbed me of the denouement. Not really, because I get what I want out of the movie, and forgive Nolan being a dick and cutting away, ;) , but its last seconds end up being what we all focus on. And by doing so, it may sound like I'm coming down on the film.

    Which couldn't be further from the truth. I think Inception is a masterful film, highly entertaining, deeply moving, and being a student of psychology, right up my alley in it basically in some form being a film about psychoanalysis.

    If I was to rate Inception, which I normally don't do for movies, it would be a solid 8.5 out of 10, losing half a point for all the best visuals being in the trailer (not really its fault) and misusing some psychological terms and ideas (not something most moviegoers will know anyway), and a point for an undeserved ambiguous ending. But otherwise, it's a flawless film, and it is a total breath of fresh air to see a fun, entertaining, science fiction-y film that is really intelligent.

    I also love that, although many of us disagree on what actually happened, we can really get in a conversation about it. Notice no one has stepped in to start trolling up the place or saying how much the film blows, and that there aren't any real arguments about the film? It's all civilized discussion. That really says something. It says the film is really that good. We can discuss ambiguity and intentions and what it all means and what was Nolan's intent till the cows come home, but it's obvious there is no denying the fact that overall it's a really, really good film. And that's really nice to experience once in awhile.

    :)
     
  8. JacksonArcher

    JacksonArcher Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Inception (Christopher Nolan, Leonardo DiCaprio) Grading & Discuss

    That was also a comment my friend made. I counter-argued that even when discussing the last five seconds of a movie, you need to get in-depth about the meaning of the film for that discussion to even work, so in essence even though we are technically discussing the ending of the movie, we're also discussing the themes and ideas of the movie as well.

    I absolutely agree. I was arguing with another friend about the rating that the film currently has on IMBD. It's apparently ranked #3 of all time, and while I pointed out that it'll very likely get sent down a few notches before all is said and done, he attempted to completely discredit IMBD by saying it wasn't a credible indicator of quality.

    Regardless of the credibility of IMBD, I argued that Inception mattered enough to get people to vote, and that is truly something special. Like you said, the fact that people are discussing it and thinking about it means that obviously it had an impact on people, in some shape or form. In the summer movie season, that's an incredible feat in my opinion. It means people paid attention to a smart, intellectual film during the summer. I think that's personally quite awesome.
     
  9. T'Baio

    T'Baio Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Inception (Christopher Nolan, Leonardo DiCaprio) Grading & Discuss

    Especially this summer season. :lol:
     
  10. JacksonArcher

    JacksonArcher Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Inception (Christopher Nolan, Leonardo DiCaprio) Grading & Discuss

    Agreed. This has been one of the most sluggish and uneventful summer movie seasons in a while.
     
  11. Daedalus12

    Daedalus12 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: Inception (Christopher Nolan, Leonardo DiCaprio) Grading & Discuss

    I don't know if this was true or not but some people online have claimed that they heard the sound of totem falling on the desk right after the screen went to pitch black during the ending? Can anyone confirm this?
     
  12. David cgc

    David cgc Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Inception (Christopher Nolan, Leonardo DiCaprio) Grading & Discuss

    All I heard was a strangled cry of frustration from a woman in the audience, and then the rest of us tittering in sympathy with her reaction.
     
  13. Daedalus12

    Daedalus12 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: Inception (Christopher Nolan, Leonardo DiCaprio) Grading & Discuss

    ^ I assume it would take a really stoic crowd in the theater to not drown out the subtle clattering sound with cries of frustration.

    I'll be listening for it in the second viewing.
     
  14. Myasishchev

    Myasishchev Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: Inception (Christopher Nolan, Leonardo DiCaprio) Grading & Discuss

    I've never really bought into that criticism of the unicorn cut of Blade Runner. Humans are still willing to enslave Replicants, even to the point of designing a Replicant to kill Replicants who strive for freedom, setting Deckard up as a Blade Runner because they have such a low opinion of Replicants' capacity for free will, agency, and love.

    The movie doesn't need a human viewpoint character to show that humans can be unfeeling scum (although there is Gaff), because we already know that humans can be and often are unfeeling scum.

    At most it undermines Deckard's feelings for Rachel, because if he's a Replicant and knows he's a Replicant his choice to flee with her instantly becomes no great moral decision. But so what? The movie's about Deckard's awakening and Batty's mercy, and it doesn't matter whether they're technically human or not.

    Now that was a long and possibly unnecessary segue to get to the point that I agree with you on one level--that Inception's flaws are much the same as Blade Runner. Blade Runner's premise is full of holes. The most obvious is "What kind of dumbass genetic engineer gives superstrength to a sexbot? Or even the capacity for intelligence?" This is followed by "Why do the Replicants not have obvious marks to distinguish them from humans?" "Wouldn't something superhumanly strong already be easily distinguishible from a human without a need for an empathy test?" (Cf. Battlestar Galactica.:rolleyes:) "Would a slightly stronger human be more useful in, say, an unobtainium mine than a giant piece of actual mining equipment?"

    Inception is very similar to that, asking that belief be suspended at some really questionable things. The biggest example, I repeat, is the years of experiential memory formed in a few seconds, which I am convinced is not biologically possible because of little-known restraints like caloric requirements for mental activity, waste heat, and the boiling point of water. Yet, like Blade Runner, Inception has the "thematic weight" of which you speak to forgive its flaws.

    If this is so, I couldn't hear it and I doubt anyone else could over my involuntary, cruel laughter.
     
  15. Kegg

    Kegg Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: Inception (Christopher Nolan, Leonardo DiCaprio) Grading & Discuss

    A note about Blade Runner: The thematic incongruity can basically be placed at the fact that the screenwriter Hampton did not intend for Deckard to be a replicant, but the director Scott did. I don't think the same cross purpose intent is on display here with Inception - it seems a far more thematically confident movie - but damned if I'd know for sure.
     
  16. bigdaddy

    bigdaddy Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Inception (Christopher Nolan, Leonardo DiCaprio) Grading & Discuss

    Well all gigledish at the end.

    I'm sorry but this has to be the most over-hyped movie in a very long time, it's almost as bad as Avatar.

    I knew they were going to do that ending before seeing the movie, it wasn't shocking, it was clearly the ending that was going to happen. Halfway through the film I thought because he touched his wife's todum that it no longer works and everything was a dream.

    It was a great made movie, but it wasn't "smart", it was just smarter than the crap that is normally released. I heard all these stupid idiot college aged students talking about the film after it ended. Everyone enjoyed it, but no one understood it! It was pretty easy to follow until the last few minutes which you can take to mean a few different things. One dumb (fake) blonde girl went "The movie was soooooo great! I'll have to see it again because I didn't understand it!".

    How can you love a movie you don't understand?
     
  17. Capt. Vulcan

    Capt. Vulcan Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Inception (Christopher Nolan, Leonardo DiCaprio) Grading & Discuss

    I kind of agree. I enjoyed it, but I think it's overrated. It didn't really elicit an emotional response from me and I didn't find it all that compelling. It was just interesting.
     
  18. tauntme

    tauntme Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Re: Inception (Christopher Nolan, Leonardo DiCaprio) Grading & Discuss

    Earlier in the movie they purposely showed the top spin out. You clearly see the wobble before it stops.

    Now, in the end right before the cut. You see 2 to 3 seconds of the same top wobbling. If you put those scenes side by side, it's the same wobble.

    Cobb won. He got back to the States and saw his kids. It's real.
     
  19. Flying Spaghetti Monster

    Flying Spaghetti Monster Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Inception (Christopher Nolan, Leonardo DiCaprio) Grading & Discuss

    I really liked the film but was really disappointed as well.

    Page was pretty awful. She was kind of snappy in Juno, but in every other role, she has a blank look on her face. Here, she seemed to wear it even while spouting dialogue the actress herself could not comprehend. And WTF, Caine pulls her out of class, and suddenly she's some great architect who sucks worse than I ever did at creating mazes. She becomes the exposition character, who gets and gives all the exposition, and her blandness - how one-dimensional her character was- nearly sunk the film.

    The big snow scene made me feel like I was watching G.I. Joe the movie (remember the snow scene at the beginning of the animated film? That was this whole scene). And what a cheat using the bland-looking ventilation system instead of seeing the maze. Made me feel that Page's character was even more useless to the whole film.

    This movie proceeds with the idea that every image of a dream must mean something. I would agree that most images in a dream do, but not all. There's always something out of whack.
     
  20. First Joel

    First Joel Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Inception (Christopher Nolan, Leonardo DiCaprio) Grading & Discuss

    Been waiting for this for months, and absolutely loved it. Planning on seeing again. Best film so far this year.