In the most toys, if The enterpise got the 3 seconds latter

Discussion in 'Star Trek: The Next Generation' started by WesleysDisciple, Mar 30, 2013.

  1. WesleysDisciple

    WesleysDisciple Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    if the enterprise had gotten there 3 seconds latter, would data have been charged with murder most likely, or think it woul dbe seen as justifiable given the circumstances.
     
  2. Dale Sams

    Dale Sams Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Charged by whom? Also Data can't touch him, so he can't restrain him. There's no stun setting and there's nothing stopping Kivas from going over and picking up the other disruptor. Data 'arrested' him, he refused. ZAP.
     
  3. JessDD

    JessDD Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    Agreed. Self protection. Battered Android Syndrome.


    Take your pick.
     
  4. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    His actions would have been deemed justified. Fajo had enslaved him and was threatening the lives of innocent people to maintain that enslavement, and killing him was, to the best of his knowledge at the time, the only viable escape option.
     
  5. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Who's going to charge him? It's perfectly justifiable to kill your kidnapper. If anything Data took his own sweet time in getting to it. Even the guy with a few gigs of ethical programming said "this cannot continue." He was talking about his incarceration as much as he was Fajo's murderous control over his people. Fajo flat out said he was going to keep killing people.
     
  6. cheesepuff316

    cheesepuff316 Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    Even if Data had agreed to be Fajo's toy, it still wouldn't have stopped Fajo from killing other crew if he felt like it. Data had to weigh up the consequences of not killing Fajo (risking the lives of his crew) or kill Fajo and save the rest of the crew.
    His ethical subroutines told him that to have the least amount of bloodshed, killing Fajo was the best decision. Fortunately though, the Enterprise beamed them both out in time...
     
  7. cheesepuff316

    cheesepuff316 Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    Always wondered what happened to his ship after? Was it towed to a starbase and dealt with there? Did they leave his first officer in charge? Did Fajo even have a first officer?
     
  8. Mojochi

    Mojochi Commodore Commodore

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    Assuming it was actually his, I'm pretty sure after all his stolen goods were confiscated, his other material possessions were likely sold to cover legal penalties, & it sounded like the ENT-D crew began the whole process right then

    I imagine he was ruined, as well as imprisoned. He really picked the wrong commodity to steal
     
  9. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Fajo's crew were probably all conscripted anyway, so I'm sure they were allowed to return to their homes.
     
  10. Moriarty

    Moriarty Ensign Red Shirt

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    I actually believe Data when he says that it was just a transporter malfunction after he beams back to the Enterprise. I think it would be a contradiction for him to kill someone when he said earlier on in the episode that he couldn't commit murder. Now, I know he also said that he has the capability of killing someone in self defence (not murder) but Kivas Fajo said that he wasn't going to harm Data, correctly identifying that Data couldn't actually kill him in that situation.

    Also, Data cannot lie without the emotions chip (which afair hasn't been encountered at this point).
     
  11. Dream

    Dream Admiral Admiral

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    The best part of this episode was the ending. You know the episode made an impact when fans are still talking about it 20 years later! :techman:
     
  12. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    By that standard Threshold is one of the best Trek episodes. ;)
     
  13. yousirname

    yousirname Commander Red Shirt

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    Can he not? He does in Clues. Admittedly he was ordered to by Picard, but I'm not sure if that's significant.
     
  14. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Fajo may not have had any ill intent against Data specifically, but that's not the point. Fajo clearly had intent to harm OTHERS, and specifically threatened to do so ("I'll just kill someone else," I believe he said).

    So Data was naturally justified in firing at Fajo. Killing someone because they are a danger to other people (other than yourself) is still not murder.
     
  15. Worf'sParmach

    Worf'sParmach Commander Red Shirt

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    :guffaw:
     
  16. WesleysDisciple

    WesleysDisciple Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    heres a part of the legal problem the weapon data had been PRepared to use was NOT humane.

    Not that the guy has much right to complain but it is a problem.
     
  17. Takeru

    Takeru Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    It would only be a problem if Data had several weapons to choose from, if a not humane weapon is the only one available using it is justified.
     
  18. Trekker4747

    Trekker4747 Boldly going... Premium Member

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    It's highly unlikely that Data can make a decision without weighing all of the options as well as the likely impact it'll have on himself. That microsecond it would have taken him to weigh his options and to pull the trigger Data KNEW that if killed Fajo he'd be free and could contact Starfleet/the Enterprise and get back home and that'd he have to suffer the consequences upon himself for his actions.

    What Data did was pure self-defense/defense of others. If Riker can beam down and vaporize a woman trying to kill the leader of breakaway colony after only giving her a couple of warnings, I'm sure Data can vaporize a man who has just vaporized someone else and is holding sentient beings against their will.

    The only problem here is the lie Data tells Riker back on the ship. And it IS a lie in the legal sense, Data with held information either through misdirection or omission. Yes "something" happened during transport that deactivated the weapon but that doesn't change the fact Data pulled the trigger to fire the weapon in the first place.

    Just the same, I'm sure Data is full-on in the clear for his actions on the ship and what would have happened if the Enterprise arrived moments later.
     
  19. Mojochi

    Mojochi Commodore Commodore

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    I'm not really disputing that he withheld the fact that he purposely fired, but the conversation was hardly legal in nature or even official. Riker didn't even put a question to him directly. It was an offhand remark, as in "Oh... by the by... O'Brien said the weapon was in a state of discharge"

    "Perhaps something happened during transport" Yeah, something did happen. He pulled the trigger on that jerk's monkey ass,

    Now, it's clear Riker was suspicious of that remark, & if he had followed up with "You know of no specific reason why it would have been discharging? Under that line of questioning, I'm betting Data would have admitted it

    But Riker didn't pursue it... purposely. They both knew what that meant, & chose to let it be
     
  20. Anji

    Anji Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Fajo had it coming. And Data could never stand to see anyone suffer and after all the suffering that @#%& caused. Data did the right thing. Riker did the right thing for not asking.