In regeneration, do you look forward to the end, or the beginning?

Discussion in 'Doctor Who' started by Mark_Nguyen, Oct 1, 2013.

  1. Mark_Nguyen

    Mark_Nguyen Commodore Commodore

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    Now, I happen to believe that a true regeneration story in Doctor Who SHOULD contain both everything leading up to the actual event, and the first moments afterwards as the new guy looks about and starts his time. But the other current thread on regeneration got me thinking - when you take in a story that involves one Doctor changing to the next, what do you look forward to more: the previous Doctor's final moments, or the first ones of the next? Discuss.

    Mark
     
  2. auntiehill

    auntiehill Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Well, if I liked the previous Doctor, I certainly don't look forward to him leaving, but I do like to see him get a decent send-off. Beginnings are always exciting, so I definitely look forward to that. So I suppose it's both; I'm curious to see how the old one leaves and how the new one starts.
     
  3. Captaindemotion

    Captaindemotion Vice Admiral Admiral

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    ^ What auntie said.

    In the last 2 cases, I knew little about either Tennant or Smith before they began. So I suppose I was treasuring the last moments of Eccleston and then Tennant respectively more than I was looking forward to their respective successors.

    However, while Smith is actually my favourite Doctor, I do know a lot about Peter Capaldi and am looking forward to seeing his Doctor, even as I dread Matt leaving. My sadness at Matt's departure is tempered by the knowledge that Peter will be great. Although both David and Matt were of course great, I didn't know enough about them when they first were cast to have that sort of confidence in them.
     
  4. C.E. Evans

    C.E. Evans Admiral Admiral

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    I think regeneration stories are always about the ending of a current Doctor and having him go out in style. Having a new Doctor emerge at the end is undeniably a dramatic payoff, but it's more like with every ending there's a new beginning...
     
  5. Green Lantern

    Green Lantern Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    In The End of Time, I was just wanting the regeneration to hurry up as I wanted to see the next doctor, but I think this time I'll try and just enjoy a good story. ;)
     
  6. Alidar Jarok

    Alidar Jarok Everything in moderation but moderation Moderator

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    I think, for the regeneration story itself, I prefer a proper send-off. The new Doctor's appearance is often zany and jarring. However, given the choice between the last episode of the old Doctor and the first full episode with the newest Doctor, I usually look forward to seeing what the new Doctor can do. The show is about rejuvenation and reinvention as much as anything else.

    But the reveal of the new Doctor has almost, by necessity, seemed to involve him acting like a crazy person trying to figure out what he looks like. It's hard to get a real sense of personality based on just that.
     
  7. Mark_Nguyen

    Mark_Nguyen Commodore Commodore

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    Very true - and in most cases, the new guy has only seconds to make an impression before the audience is given MONTHS to ponder on what it means. While I don't like the waiting, it's obvious the producers bank on that to increase hype for following stories.

    Mark
     
  8. Green Lantern

    Green Lantern Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Yeah, in the End of Time when I first saw Smith, I thought to myself "fuck me he's crazy, he's definitely going to be my favourite doctor soon!" But that never happened. Far from it.
     
  9. Emperor-Tiberius

    Emperor-Tiberius Commodore Commodore

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    Strange thing, though - neither Ten or Eleven were that far off in their first appearences.

    That said, in a regeneration story I kinda have some expectations - a story that encapsulates the incarnation, his history and importance, and as such a fitting end for that chapter. The regeneration itself is, certainly, something to look forward to, but not at the expense of the story. One of the things I WANT the Christmas special to come to be is, Matt Smith's Doctor's last story. It has to be, and has to be one that fits his era and characterization. I don't want to have Peter Capaldi's Doctor appear 30 minutes before the end - I want him to be there for a minute or two. Thats how it should be, I think.
     
  10. The Borgified Corpse

    The Borgified Corpse Admiral Admiral

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    I suppose, when I first go into it, I'm more interested in the old Doctor's ending. But, on repeat viewings, once I've gotten to know the new Doctor a bit better, I'm more interested in seeing him show up. At least, that's definately how I've felt about "The End of Time." When I first watched it, I really wasn't sure about Matt Smith at all. I was more caught up in Tennant's departure (even as I was screaming for him to get on with it!). But now that Smith as firmly established himself as one of my favorite Doctors, I've found that the last 2 minutes of "The End of Time" is my favorite part of the episode. Now, when Matt Smith shows up, it's like my old friend has finally arrived.
     
  11. Emperor-Tiberius

    Emperor-Tiberius Commodore Commodore

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    There is that, too. I recall something similar when I rewatched the Bad Wolf two-parter and the Born Again scene for the Children in Need effort after End of Time, and was really pleasantly surprised to see Ten again, knowing how he will evolve over time.

    Still, thats something that is dependant on the likeability of the succesor. I like Six, but I don't think anyone really looks forward to his appearence in Caves of Androzani, in which his arrogance nearly ruins the lovely farewell to previous incarnation.
     
  12. The Borgified Corpse

    The Borgified Corpse Admiral Admiral

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    I dunno. Colin Baker's arrogance in those final moments of "The Caves of Androzani" is a good concentrated dose of 6th Doctor in just a few moments. For what it is and who he is, I think it works very well. I don't think it takes anything away from Peter Davison's farewell.

    And it's the first time that any new Doctor really did anything worth mentioning at the end of a regeneration story anyway.
     
  13. The Mirrorball Man

    The Mirrorball Man Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I agree, I think it's a very effective transition.
     
  14. Emperor-Tiberius

    Emperor-Tiberius Commodore Commodore

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    The stark contrast between them is effective, yes, because the Doctor there seems to showcase how he'll be from now on. Problem is, though, that its he wasn't very good while in those years. Big Finish aside, the Sixth Doctor almost completely doesn't work on the TV stories - and thats not Baker's fault, certainly, but the way with which JNT forced his characterization down the throats of millions of viewers.

    But yeah, he doesn't ruin Caves of Androzani. However, he does characterize some of the worst scripts of that period - I honestly believe season 22 to be the worst Doctor Who season, ever.
     
  15. Alidar Jarok

    Alidar Jarok Everything in moderation but moderation Moderator

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    That's a good point. He set a precedent for what was to follow.
     
  16. Green Lantern

    Green Lantern Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I feel rather very different about the last two mins of End of Time. I feel when Smith turns up, I think to myself how awesome Smith would have been if RTD wrote for him, instead we got Moffat and a sitty era of Doctor Who, and I feel cheated out of a good doctor.
     
  17. Emperor-Tiberius

    Emperor-Tiberius Commodore Commodore

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    You do know, though, that Smith's lines in End of Time were written by Moffat himself, right?

    RTD only wrote for the Eleventh Doctor when he guest-starred in The Sarah Jane Chronicles episode, Death of the Doctor.
     
  18. Green Lantern

    Green Lantern Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    [​IMG]
    I did not know that...................

    You mean Sarah Jane Adventures ;)

    While I don't particularly like SJA, that episode was one of the better ones. Both of the ones with the doctor in were good. Plus Jo came back too! ;)
     
  19. The Badger

    The Badger Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Right. Six was the first Doctor to get any dialogue at the end of a regeneration story. I remember a DWM review of Logopolis where the review commented on what a 'nice surprise' it was that Peter Davison actually sat up after regenerating.